New Defenders to be built but not from where you'd expect.

headdamage · November 19, 2018, 07:52 PM

Funny thing, I was looking for a Suzuki to be my first 4x4 when I was a teenager but my Dad lead me to Land Rover. Now that new Suzuki might be a better Land Rover.

binch · November 20, 2018, 01:28 AM

Tata doesn't like to sell of companies once they've bought them though. Even here in the UK I'm not seeing as many of the newer discos...but I'm not sure if that's because I don't notice them or they just arent there. The bigger disco 3's and 4's are blendiful as are the older RRS's . But RRE's appear to be doing well here.

Red90 · November 20, 2018, 07:01 AM

Quote from: binch on November 20, 2018, 01:28 AMTata doesn't like to sell of companies once they've bought them though.

When they start costing you $50 million a month, what "you like" tends to change. They have created a bunch of vehicles that look the same and look no different than every other SUV on the market. On top of that they have nearly the worst reliability rating in the world. It is not a formula that leads to success.

Red90 · November 20, 2018, 09:55 AM

The newest camo shots make it look very similar to the Disco 4 without the roof step. It is very well confirmed that it will be the same platform as the Disco 5 and RRS. We can assume identical suspension and drivetrain with a more Defenderish body and Disco 5 prices.

Matt H · November 20, 2018, 10:38 AM

Land Rover have priced many of us out of the market. My wife and I were in the dealership the other week and the cheapest unit was a Discovery sport at $70+K. It is similar to a Kia that costs $40K. Only the Kia has more options.

The unjustifiable high price has no value in a vehicle that is essentially a Freelander that used to sell for much less.

Trevor · November 20, 2018, 11:15 AM

Quote from: Matt H on November 20, 2018, 10:38 AM
Land Rover have priced many of us out of the market. My wife and I were in the dealership the other week and the cheapest unit was a Discovery sport at $70+K. It is similar to a Kia that costs $40K. Only the Kia has more options.

The unjustifiable high price has no value in a vehicle that is essentially a Freelander that used to sell for much less.

Yes, spot on. You and John nailed it.

Contemplating buying a LR now is extremely easy imo, I'm done before I start because they really do not have anything of value or that is unique. Tata has certainly not helped the company at all imo. Whether they or not they are entirely to blame is up for debate, but getting out from under them probably isn't bad.

Red90 · November 20, 2018, 11:30 AM

There was a discussion on our FB page on the recent state of Land Rover and I was surprised at how many people were saying that the reliability was so poor. I could not imagine spending $70000+ on a vehicle and having it break down when new. This was one comment.

QuoteI have had my Discovery Sport for 1.5 years and have lost count of it visits to the service department. Totally regret it's purchase.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings/dependability
Land Rover is dead last in 2018

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
36 out of 40 (in the UK).

Red90 · November 20, 2018, 01:10 PM

Quote from: Trevor on November 20, 2018, 11:15 AMWhether they or not they are entirely to blame is up for debate, but getting out from under them probably isn't bad.

McGovern. Let's get realistic. The company does not need a head designer that has never been off road and has no interest in off roading. I'd be surprised if he has ever left a city in his life.

Trevor · November 20, 2018, 01:40 PM

Quote from: Red90 on November 20, 2018, 11:30 AM
There was a discussion on our FB page on the recent state of Land Rover and I was surprised at how many people were saying that the reliability was so poor. I could not imagine spending $70000+ on a vehicle and having it break down when new. This was one comment.

QuoteI have had my Discovery Sport for 1.5 years and have lost count of it visits to the service department. Totally regret it's purchase.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings/dependability
Land Rover is dead last in 2018

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
36 out of 40 (in the UK).

Hehe, well that's certainly not good.

I will say that when I had my RRS I had really good luck with it insofar as maintenance was concerned. Mind you that was in 2008 and mine was built under Ford's ownership. I know when Ford sold it they took all their QC folks with them, so what little (if any) ground LR gained from Ford's QC policies, was undoubtedly lost.

Overall LR has never been a well built product. That is less significant when its basically an inexpensive tractor that is going to be used out on the farm or running around the countryside. And it can be worked on and repaired. No one wants to spend money on unreliable and poorly made products mind you. But it's an entirely different matter when you're spending in the 6 figure range for something that has quality/reliability issues.

Red90 · November 20, 2018, 02:12 PM

This was Mark's comment.

QuoteThe new ones are junk. Even if the old ones were junk, at least a guy who knew a little about fixing stuff could get them going again on the side of the road!

Imagine buying this and then breaking down...

You cannot view this attachment.

Trevor · November 20, 2018, 04:05 PM

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. That's an insane price for an LR. Completely insane.

...and why I don't really support LR. They have gone a different path and left me behind. Their choice. I'm good with that.

Matt H · November 21, 2018, 12:02 AM

As to my earlier statement about it's what the people will actually do in the new Defender that will make the difference........
If LR's current pricing strategy is anything to go by, looks like all most folks will be doing at first is making payments!

But hey, a new JL Wrangler Rubicon will cost a guy close to $60K. Same deal for loaded Toyota 4 Runner or Tacoma. A new One Ton Pickup can cost over $100K these days and the big three sell loads of them.
Vehicle manufactures make the majority of their income from financing so there is little incentive to build vehicles people can actually afford.

I'm sure regular people will off road the new Defenders eventally. I'm also sure they will be good in the rough stuff too. It may just take ten years for them to become affordable enough to be used in such a way.

Red90 · November 21, 2018, 07:13 AM

Quote from: Matt H on November 21, 2018, 12:02 AM
I'm sure regular people will off road the new Defenders eventally. I'm also sure they will be good in the rough stuff too. It may just take ten years for them to become affordable enough to be used in such a way.

I would not be so sure. The problem with almost all new vehicles is that they are complex and after 10 to 15 years, all of those fancy bits start to fail and they are very expensive to replace or repair, even if the parts still exist. By that time, the technology will be very out of date and no longer supported. The end result is that repairs well exceed the vehicle value and they are scrapped. It won't be like a traditional truck, where, with a lot of labour and a few parts, you will be able to get it running. It is the era of the disposable car.

Matt H · November 21, 2018, 02:18 PM

I suppose if you are in a situation where you are still making payments on a car that requires expensive repairs out of the warranty period it won't take long before it gets traded in on a new unit.

binch · November 22, 2018, 03:10 AM

Quote from: Red90 on November 20, 2018, 07:01 AM
When they start costing you $50 million a month, what "you like" tends to change. They have created a bunch of vehicles that look the same and look no different than every other SUV on the market. On top of that they have nearly the worst reliability rating in the world. It is not a formula that leads to success.

Can't argue that logic