New Member / Importing Questions / Which 110 to buy??

[GR8PMKN]

Hi there, new member here.  I have dreamed of owning a 110 since I was a kid seeing Camel Trophy videos (me and everyone else, right?).  My current 4x4s are a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, and a 1994 Jeep Cherokee Country.  My past ones are a '96 Cherokee, a '76 CJ5 and an '85 Toyota SR5 Pickup.  Please don't kick me out yet, I'm not the enemy, I hope!

Now that I'm passing through mid-life, I'm getting the obsession back in a strong way to once again seriously start researching the possibility of getting a 110.  So many questions to ask on importing (yes, I searched the forum but the newest stuff was 2016), and which configuration (engine/other updates) to choose.  I'm considering the 300TDi, TD5, or waiting a couple years for a Puma, which I think my wife would prefer with all the other "improvements" that were added along with the newer models.  I currently do some overlanding with the Rubicon and am pretty well set up.  Most of the stuff would be transferrable to the 110 when I get it, and that would probably be its main purpose.  I haven't decided if I would drive it in the winter or not.

I know that there aren't any Pumas in Canada yet, and it'll be the 2.4L available first, until 2027 for the importing of the 2.2L (which is supposed to be the better of the 2, so they say).  Does anyone here have any preference/comments on the motors?

Is there a reputable channel to go through to buy/import one sight-unseen?  I'm nervous about going to Europe to find one, and having it all boil down to luck.  Right one in the right place at the right time might not happen, plus that trip will add to the total expense.  I'm also nervous about buying one sight-unseen!

Looking for recommendations if you were in my shoes right now.  I'm likely a couple years out since I'm leaning towards the Puma, but I could be convinced otherwise (as long as I can convince the wife... haha).  I don't want to be ripped off, as I know these trucks vary wildly in price.

Thanks for adding me.  I look forward to the discussion.

[Red90]

The Pumas have a fairly bad rep. You are better with a TD5. Whatever you do you need a trustworthy third party to look at it. A huge proportional of sellers can't be trusted. There are a few locals in midst of rebuilding theirs from the ground up after finding this first hand that I'm sure would be happy to let you know.

Before you go too far you might want to see and drive one. They are not for everyone.

[GR8PMKN]

I have a friend in Calgary with a 90 which I love.  I haven't spent a ton of time in it though.  I don't know anyone with a 110.  My wife and I are not hefty people, so I don't think that we'd be too cramped (if that's one thing you're referring to).

What are the major issues with the Pumas?
Do the TD5s have other problems?  I've heard the TD5s might be the best of both worlds as far as being able to work on them, and "newer" tech.

[Red90]

Reliability problems with the engines and gearboxes. Just what I've heard from the places that could buy them new.  Everyone says to go with the TD5.  It is reliable and you can safely soup it up a fair amount.

Defenders are generally slow, noisy and expensive compared to most everything else out there. And at the 15+ years old, you will need to work on them.  It is not for everyone and not everyone's partners are impressed. It would be worth it meeting up with a 110 TD5 owner and getting a feel for it.

[binch]

From the folks I've chatted with in the UK they find the puma engine weak on low end torque from a stop but they do nicely once they get going, and they can produce a bit better speed with less noise.   The 6 speed gearbox has an amazing bo-low range with a 60:1 ration if I remember correctly and it's great for crawling or pulling a trailer (since the engine lack low end torque).   But the 6 speed gearbox has been having a lot of premature failures associated to one of the shafts (lack of oil supply).    Apparently Ashcrofts have come up with a solution to that failure and fixed it, since LR wouldn't.   A friend of mine has one of the last units built of the real defender and I've been out in it a couple of times.    Boy was it nice and civilized on the road compared to my 110 exmod with a 200tdi. 3 door.    It had a heater that worked well and you could hold a conversation in it to, without yelling.   His vehicle has gone up in value in the uk since they stopped making them!

All that said his serious off road toy is his IBEX 4x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN24pcNApSw  which is a rebodied land rover which is built based on the customer's requirements (200, 300, Td5, V8 and axle types etc).   The doors close easily with two fingers and they seal too!!!  They are quite and a good 4 to 6 inches wider in the body compared to the defender so Loads of space for even the biggest person.  In fact the owner is a little over 6" and 240lbs or so, and he fits just fine.   He selected the 90" (or is it 100") wheel base and the Td5 engine to go with it.   In the spring of 2019 I went up into the Lake District to do some green laining and he actually let me drive it too!?!     OH, I DID LIKE IT!!!!    But with mostly land rover parts in the suspension, Steering, axles, drive line and engine it's easy to get parts and maintain.

As for the Td5 engine.....It pulls like a train and can easily keep up on the highway.   But it does have electickery involved so it's not as basic as the 200di and early 300tdi.   But it is quieter and can pull harder.     One thing to remember about the 300tdi's and the Td5......You HAVE to be religious about your oil and coolant levels.   You must keep them in check or the end result is big work.

I have a 200tdi in my 110 and it chugs along nicely.  I don't pass a lot of people so I'm good with that.   But....if it's snowing outside then it will be snowing inside.    If the wind is blowing hard from the left my right door top will open a bit and whistle.    It's heater is only adequate down to minus 15C.   When I go through 3 or 4 feet of water the truck fills up with water, but that holds me on the bottom for traction.   It's not pretty, it's not terribly comfortable and it's creature comforts are almost non existent.  But it's ex military and infantry is cheap.   Now ask me if I'd give up my landy....  NOT BLOODY LIKELY!!!!!

Oh, by the way.    My name is Bill and I own a land rover.   Welcome to LR Anonymous   ;D

If you decide to look for a landy let me know....I know people that can help, that I have a little faith in.

[Matt H]

For me a late pre electronic control 300tdi was the one to buy. I looked for about a year and a half before I found the one I wanted at a price I could live with.

Initially I also planned to import one. My family are all in the UK and looked at a few for me. However I ended up buying a 300tdi left hand drive unit that was for sale in Winnipeg. If you check out the classifieds and Kijiji etc you will find a surprising amount for sale at nearly all price points $20K and up that can be looked at in person.

Forget driving it regularly in a Canadian winter unless you upgrade basically everything that has a bearing on comfort and vision. It can and has been done in stock Defenders (by myself and many others) but it's more about endurance than enjoyment. However one of the best, if not THE best, things about Defenders is the ease of modification into exactly what you want.

Try tagging along on club trail ride sometime with your Jeep (we won't lynch you) and see a few in action and talk to the owners, ask questions, ride along, check out different set ups. We are a friendly bunch and most guys love sharing their experiences with their Land Rovers.
Sounds like you are experienced in 4wd's so you'll know what attributes are important to you.

Fair warning though, once bitten by the Land Rover bug it's incurable. The Camel Trophy certainly has a lot to answer for....

My 2c.

[Matt H]

My wife and I are not hefty people, so I don't think that we'd be too cramped (if that's one thing you're referring to).

If like most of us you have two arms and legs you will discover quickly there is nowhere to put whichever is next to the door. You get used to it but even the fancy dash TDCI units are not the most ergonomic of vehicles.

Although I will say that the stock Station Wagon front seats, despite looking thin and flimsy are extremely comfortable!

[GR8PMKN]

Red90 – I wonder if there are/will be fixes for the Puma problems before I get one... I'm definitely not sold on one yet, and I'm still kinda leaning towards a TD5.  I could fall on either side of the fence there.  Maybe even if a gem of a 300TDi pops up.  I think time will tell on which one presents itself at the right time at the right price.

Does anyone have any experience re-tuning the electronics on the TD5 for better performance?  I've never chipped anything in my life.  I'm afraid of blowing something up.  The better highway performance I hear you can get chipping the TD5 could be another tip in that direction.

Bill – Thanks for your input!  Your YouTube link took me to Bachman Turner Overdrive "Let it Ride"  ???
I've heard good things about the IBEX, however, if I'm not going to get a 'real' Defender, I'll just stick to my Rubicon.  Haha  I will definitely take you up on your offer to use your connections when the time comes.  Thanks for that, it means a lot to me.

Matt H – This is why I'm starting to research and talk to you guys early on in the process.  I'm sure it's going to take me awhile to find the right one too.  I am willing to upgrade things like the heating etc. if necessary – but that's one reason I'm thinking of the Puma which has the better HVAC system in it.  I would really like to tag along with you guys on a ride one day.  Maybe someone with a 110 will allow me to drool over it for a while (I'll keep my mask on).  When you say the stock station wagon front seats are comfortable, are you talking about the Pumas?

Anyway, so what I'm getting here is that it's hard to find a balance; when LR got better at one thing, they got worse at another.  Pumas are more comfortable, but the drivetrain suffers.  300TDi is a fantastic engine, but the rest of the comfort suffers.  Pumas moved to the all steel doors, so now you don't get the differing metal corrosion, but of course all steel means all rust around here!  Really what I want to do is find the best bang for the buck, mostly a good foundation (frame, maintained drivetrain) and go from there.  If I find the one I want, I plan on keeping it forever, so I can slowly customize other things like noise suppression, HVAC (if needed), maybe a better stereo (super low priority), maybe more comfortable seats if needed.  You get the idea.

Thanks for your opinions, and inputs.  Keep 'em coming!  I need to start a pros and cons list.  I sure do like the sound of the TD5...  ;)

[Red90]

The Puma doors are fully galvanized, so don't rust.

[GR8PMKN]

The Puma doors are fully galvanized, so don't rust.

WHAAAAAATTTT?????  That's good news...  :o

[Red90]

You can also buy galvanized doors in any of the earlier styles as well or skins and repair pieces, so it is not something to get too hung up on. There are a lot more points of corrosion to watch out for.  https://www.sp-4x4.com/category_s/108.htm

Early (pre-Defender) trucks were built better in this regard with the steel trim pieces being galvanized and using thicker aluminum. The galvanic corrosion got a lot worse with the newer trucks. The doors were the only area that eventually they improved something on the body.

[GR8PMKN]

I wonder if one were to buy a TD4, and had engine issues, would one take it to Land Rover, or Ford??  I wonder if they'd be cheaper or more costly than a traditional LR engine?  You'd think it being a Ford it'd be fairly reasonable.  I dunno...

[Red90]

I doubt either dealer would be able or willing to work on them as they were not sold here. Using the word cheaper in the same statement as a dealer is very humourous. One dealer trip would allow you to buy a set of tool and apprentice as a mechanic and come out ahead. If you are envisioning paying to get repairs done by a shop, this may not be the best choice of vehicle, IMO. Parts are cheap and they are easy to work on. Most owners learn how to become mechanics.

Off/on topic dealer rant. My boss has a two or three year old Dodge truck with a Cummins.  It has no warranty because it was stolen, written off and then found undamaged.  Anyway, a month after he buys it, the stud holding the grid heater falls off. It is sucked into the engine killing a cylinder and the turbo. This is a design fault that has been known for years and never fixed or recalled. The dealer repair estimate was $25000. Cummins does not care.  Chrysler does not care.

[GR8PMKN]

I'm good with working on stuff. That was more of a question when life gets in the way and you have to get someone else to help in a pinch.  I've never rebuilt a motor by myself or anything, but I do peripheral things (starters, alternators etc) and always one YouTube video away from tackling the next thing, and am a quick learner.

[binch]

Sorry, that link was suppose to be https://www.ibexvehicles.com/   Don't short change this vehicle...it's mostly land rover but with a much improved body (built in roll cage) and seals well.    They are highly regarded in the UK by the landy folk there.  Kinda like aiming for a Range Rover but turning left  ;D