Battery options - FFR box

88Hillman · June 17, 2019, 04:56 PM

Guys,

Since the last time the 88" was out in the wild both of the Optima batteries perished.

Previously the battery box contained a D34/78 Yellow top and D34M Blue top.

It was very tight in there, with very heavy cables connecting batteries to power the vehicle as well as the winch with a nifty solenoid setup to partition the 2 when voltage got too low and risked ability to start the vehicle.

Now that it's a fresh start, if you will, I'm looking for suggestions. I've not heard about the quality of current Optima products, but the Bluetop failed, taking with it the Yellow top.
Being in the cab between driver and passenger an AGM seems like a great idea for safety.

For the heck of it I got a quote on Odyssey batteries... and they are still very expensive for group 34 size. In the distant past I've heard of guys using smaller size Odyssey batteries as they have a higher output per size than conventional batteries.

Any thoughts or feedback are appreciated.

Cheers,
Kirk

ugly_90 · June 17, 2019, 07:19 PM

Although not helical-wound, Canadian Tire Motomaster Ultra AGM for deep cycle applications.

Made by Northstar in the US, and relabeled for here.

The Optima batteries have had rumors of early failure and quality issues after they moved the plant to Mexico. Optima was bought by Johnson Controls?

I have seen Exide helical-wound as well.

B-Red · June 17, 2019, 07:36 PM

I run red top and yellow top on my Disco and my defender. The Disco is daily driver. Batteries run well. Had them on their forth year now.
The defender set did not hold charge as it is occasional use. Note though, these batteries when they discharge the regular chargers don't see them or recharge them. You have to connect it to another dc source or batteries and watch the voltage rise. Once you reach over 9 -10 volt the charger will kick in and charge them up. I use the Optima charger for them. Works great.
Emad

88Hillman · June 17, 2019, 08:43 PM

Looking at the Northstar NSB-AGM27F, it looks exactly like the Motomaster Eliminator Ultra XD. The only spec listed also matches so its5plausible these are still the same battery.

I'm thinking about just buying one massive battery if one can be found to fit.

Trevor · June 17, 2019, 09:10 PM

For something you aren't using on a regular basis, I wouldn't recommend the Optima's. As noted above, since they moved production to Mexico, the quality followed and went south as well. I think they're ok if it's a daily driver and receiving a constant charge. However if they are sitting for any period of time (30 days +), you need to charge them. I've had several fail in my LR's over the last many years. Currently the yellow top in my D2 needs replacing, and it will be with a different brand.

binch · June 17, 2019, 10:25 PM

Hi Kirk,

You know me and electricery.....I'm a dumb arse!!! I had two of the crappy tire marine coil gel batteries in my 110 for 12 years and they did pretty good for me. But this year they were starting to perish so I bit the bullet and bought two of the Northstar batteries as replacements. I spoke to the fellas at Saskbattery.com and they gave me a break on the batteries. I got two NSB-AGM65 and they gave me 8% off (not much but it was a good enough deal to take it). I almost needed a shoe horn to fit them in but they ARE in now and I'm happy with them.

From what I was reading they rated as one of the top two batteries too......

A good choice for me.....

Happy hunting...

Red90 · June 18, 2019, 06:11 AM

Always run a battery charger for these vehicles that sit. It is the only way to get good life. I'm running some group 24 Dual purpose marine Exide AGMs but I'm not that happy as they seem to be losing capacity after a few years.

They are taller than the 34s so may not fit. You could always go to a single battery.

88Hillman · June 18, 2019, 10:18 PM

John,
The group 24 batteries may or may not fit depending on the particular manufacturer and the shape near the bottom. Some of the Northstar seem to have reduced length at the bottom which should make them fit.

I was looking at the largest single battery that would fit in the box too. There seem to be options that way. This would be less complicated in some respects with fewer failure modes but at a cost of reserve capacity.

What other AGM makes would be recommended?

binch · June 18, 2019, 11:19 PM

When I was looking for my batteries the top three listed were Northstar, Odessey, and optima...in that order. But they said the Optima came a distant 3rd because some bit of info was missing....I just can't remember what. ::)

Trevor · June 19, 2019, 10:10 AM

Quote from: 88Hillman on June 18, 2019, 10:18 PM
John,
The group 24 batteries may or may not fit depending on the particular manufacturer and the shape near the bottom. Some of the Northstar seem to have reduced length at the bottom which should make them fit.

I was looking at the largest single battery that would fit in the box too. There seem to be options that way. This would be less complicated in some respects with fewer failure modes but at a cost of reserve capacity.

What other AGM makes would be recommended?

Kirk, I may have some info after this weekend that could help. As I mentioned above I have to replace my yellow top Optima in my D2, that's one of my projects this weekend. I have a dual battery setup in it with 0 extra room for a larger battery. Whatever I find as a replacement, it has to be no larger than the Optima. I'll post here what I find...if anything.

B-Red · June 19, 2019, 01:24 PM

I explored the Odyssey batteries. They come in two sizes. Unlike the red and yellow tops, they do both functions under one battery. This eliminates the need for two batteries. I am considering going that root for my defender. The only issue is controlling battery drain for auxiliary loads while engine is off.
Emad

88Hillman · June 20, 2019, 07:42 AM

Trevor, thanks for the help.

Emad, the Odyssey line are very expensive but I was considering a larger single battery which could eliminate the charge balancing issue as well as the tight fit. I think group 31 would fit nicely.

Odyssey 31M-925 or 31M-PC2150 may be the answer. The latter probably costs as much as 2 Optima batteries.

https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Battery-31M-PC2150/dp/B06XBCLL8G#

Or Northstar from Canadian tire:

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-nautilus-ultra-xd-group-31-high-performance-agm-deep-cycle-battery-0103196p.html#srp

Trevor · June 20, 2019, 10:52 AM

I haven't done the final measurements in the D2 to confirm it will fit but this is the battery I am leaning towards as a first option...

https://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-34m-pc1500st-battery.html

Length is the dimension I need to nail down as it is slightly longer than the Yellow top Optima. Ultimately I would hope to replace both Optima's with these. It is really tough finding battery options to shoe-horn into a D2. If its a smidge to long I will likely modify the tray and be done with it as I think I will have room to add another 1".

The MotoMasters I do not think are an option as they all appear to be too tall.

Odyssey is not a brand that I have used before, but it gets very good and reviews. It is also made in USA, which is important for me.

headdamage · June 20, 2019, 11:31 AM

I've always used matching batteries in parallel.

Matt H · June 20, 2019, 04:24 PM

Quote from: headdamage on June 20, 2019, 11:31 AM
I've always used matching batteries in parallel.

Yes. That is perhaps the most important if longevity is expected. Same brand, same spec and same age. I've seen Costco batteries last 12 years and expensive batteries last 6 months.

If your batteries are discharging when not in use then you have an unwanted drain that needs to be fixed before you go shopping for a battery that can handle being run down countless times. If you can't pin point it or just too lazy (like me) fit a disconnect.

I always have good luck with Optima batteries.

My 2c.