Defender TD5 Rebuild

Started by grizzlychicken, April 18, 2020, 06:14 PM

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grizzlychicken

#90
Well nothing ever goes as smoothly as you would like.........
I am having a tough time with the new diff center install. As I mentioned I am replacing my old diff center with an Eaton Truetrac LSD. The carrier looks very slick out of the box.
However I went to install it with the shim spacing of the old diff and with the setup bearings I made and I am having significant issues with the trutrac binding on the casing. It is getting hung up on a prominence at the base of the bearing seat.


https://youtu.be/ftaf6Svt1nc

As it turns out there at some significant differences between the carriers. The main difference is the clearance from the crownwheel side bearing seat on the diff carrier and the carrier housing. There is about a 1/4" difference between the two:







So the diff carrier is binding against the small knob on the diff housing.

I thought I might have ordered the wrong carrier but double checked and it is what Ashcroft uses and the numbers match.
https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/limited-slip-differentials/salisbury-truetrac.html

I measured the distance between the crown-wheel seat and that side bearing seat and they are similar between the 2 diffs. Overall the truetrac is taller by about .15" which shouldn't matter. So I can't shim the diff away from the binding point.

I think my only option is to modify the diff case by filing/ flap wheeling down the prominence on the case to allow for the diff carrier housing clearance.
Has anyone done this or heard of an issue with this in the past? Once I have case clearance I'll b able to shim it appropriately.


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binch

Lovejugs installed one into Emad's 110 rearend a couple years back
Cheers, Bill

grizzlychicken

Quote from: binch on June 10, 2020, 09:24 PM
Lovejugs installed one into Emad's 110 rearend a couple years back
Ok thanks Bill. I would be interested to hear how that went! I don't think that little nub has a purpose so think that's where I'll start anyway.


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Matt H

Grind it flush. You often find discrepancies in the castings of a differential case. Normally a non issue but does tend to complicate matters when fitting non factory parts such as aftermarket carriers/lockers etc.  As long as you have the correct carrier for for the gearset ratio it's all good.
No Road Except For Land-Rover.

grizzlychicken

Quote from: Matt H on June 11, 2020, 12:29 PM
Grind it flush. You often find discrepancies in the castings of a differential case. Normally a non issue but does tend to complicate matters when fitting non factory parts such as aftermarket carriers/lockers etc.  As long as you have the correct carrier for for the gearset ratio it's all good.
On my way to do that now thanks Matt!


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grizzlychicken

#95
Success!

Had a great day in the shop working away to some good beats :)

First I taped off the pinion and ground down the nub using a shopvac as air extraction to minimalize metal shards. Worked great to keep everything clean.


Grinding the nub solved all my clearance issues yahoo!

So then went back and decided to measure the amount of case displacement my diff spreader would give. With my diff carrier and bearing assembly sliding in when fully displaced it gives me an idea of the preload on the carrier bearings. I estimate about a .005" clearance to get the center in (using a feeler gauge behind the bearing race before releasing the case spreader) and measured the case deflection at .01" which gives me a preload of about a .005" shim width which is about right.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/KqhuPIANWs4 [youtube]

Happy that I have a good carrier preload went on to measure the crownwheel backlash. The manual says it should be 0.006-0.011". So mine was initially slightly too much play at 0.012":
[youtube] https://youtu.be/Y90Nk_n1UGQ [youtube]

So added a shim to the crown-wheel side .001" from the other side and came in on tolerance.
Then with sims all set I installed the new bearings and rechecked the backlash and was spot on at .008" with a good tooth pattern.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/njv_9QbNGZY [YouTube]



All set up and torqued down! I must say don't underestimate the value of feel. The overall assembly feels smooth and tight and minimal play. It feels right. (Scientific I know!)
Now I can get to reassembling the rest of the axel and into a rolling chassis.


Happy with my first diff setup attempt. Next chapter is getting this assembly back together and onto a rolling chassis........ stay tuned!


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binch

Nicely don sir..nicely done!
Cheers, Bill

grizzlychicken

Ok onto getting this rolling chassis installed!
It is interesting finding chassis differences between the new chassis and the original as I roll forward. I mentioned the rear cross member already and on the weekend I started to install the wishbone mounting brackets. The original chassis has raised spacers welded direct to the chassis but the new chassis has much thicker mount points.






The other kicker is the spacers on the old chassis are different front back. So short story none of the new fasteners I sourced fit :(
So just bolted it in the end with a single washer between the bracket and the chassis as wasn't sure if the wishbone assembly could suck up the 1/2" difference in the bracket position.
Think it should work fine as it all lined up with the diff. So now I have a rolling chassis!



Without shocks yet but nice to have less bits spread around the garage! Wheels and diffs take up a bunch of room!


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binch

All this brand new looking, better then factory finish is truly a sign of a very sick mind.....VERY well done Shane!!!!!!  EXCELLENT work!!! ;)
Cheers, Bill

grizzlychicken

Ha thanks Bill. My bodywork skills aren't that good so at least she'll have a good heart ;)

I forgot to mention the fascinating fastener use on the defender. One minute you are using an M8 metric fastener, then you go to the suspension and figure out the ball joint cross bolts on the wishbone are 1/2"-20...... I suppose they just used what was available at the local hardware store! Nice to have a thread pitch gauge handy...


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binch

They were just trying to keep you on your toes  ::)
Cheers, Bill

Matt H

Your traditional shop tool set for old Land Rovers.

No Road Except For Land-Rover.

Red90

In general most fine threaded fasteners are UNF.  Most coarse are metric. Fine threads are used in applications like that where they want a higher clamping load. There are some exceptions, but they should not be too common in a TD5.

So keeping a stock of UNF and metric coarse usually covers your needs. This is a good thing, because finding metric fine locally is not easy.

grizzlychicken

Just researching sheet aluminum to use for the floor and for a few panels. Looks like the floor is mostly 13 gauge and the body panels/skins are 18 gauge.
What aluminum are the masse using for panel repair and replacement? Here is what I have found:
Original Land Rover aluminum was brimabright or later as 5251 aluminum which is what I believe my defender probably used.
http://funrover.com/tips-guides/just-what-exactly-are-land-rover-bodies-made-from/

I connected with YRM metal solutions which I'll be ordering some material from and they are using 1050 aluminum.

Different vehicle manufacturers use different aluminums and 2 that were mentioned a bunch when I was researching were 5022 and 6022

http://alcoainnovation.ca/fr/pdf/20121027_Aluminum_use_in_Auto_for_release.pdf

https://aluminiuminsider.com/aluminium-alloys-automotive-industry-handy-guide/

https://uacj-automobile.com/types_and_applications.html

Unfortunately trying to source any of these in southern Alberta is almost impossible. The local sheet metal supply could get 1100 but was $1000 per sheet! Due to the aluminum purity.
They could source the 6022 but with a $300 shipping charge but not bad per sheet at around $100.

The local shop has plenty of 5052 sheet aluminum which is pretty common but not common for automotive panels. He also I recommended 6061 which has better strength and still good formability about the same price.

What have the masses used? I was thinking the 6022 would be ideal but at a premium price with the shipping and it is a month out. My second choice, but likely the logical choice would probably be the 6061. The cheapest alternative may just be fine with the 5052.


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ugly_90

I wouldn't be spending much money on new metal if I didn't have to. I'm usually more of a net seller/trader than a buyer lately. The last time I bought a few feet of new steel or aluminum myself, it was ridiculous, a complete highway robbery. The last time I bought some steel at work on a job was an 8 foot piece of rusty schedule 40 pipe for $300 in BC!

A scrapyard will be much more accommodating in pricing for you. Better still if you know of a good metal bin before it hits the yard. There's a few spots around that do aluminum welding, and others that do aluminum signs, especially large highway signs, which you should find to be quite thick. If the lettering was wrong or phone number changed on the sign, its discarded and waiting for you..

The two front floor plates should be forgiving if you use less of a gauge, just as long as it doesn't bend under your heel. For the aluminum body, it has been found available as scrap, one of the fellows here has salvaged body aluminum from an old scrapped holiday trailer, and found the thickness to be the same.

I think the saying goes in gold mining that " gold is where you find it ", perhaps meaning it's easy to find more gold near past gold claims. The same with recycling scrap material.