Projekt Grenadier

[Red90]

I’ll add that it does not matter if they build it properly. If they do not include axles that don’t break, the whole thing is a failure.

[Trevor]

I’ll add that it does not matter if they build it properly. If they do not include axles that don’t break, the whole thing is a failure.

Agreed.

LC bolt pattern would be welcome as the more shared rims, the better.

[Matt H]

I’ll add that it does not matter if they build it properly. If they do not include axles that don’t break, the whole thing is a failure.

I don’t agree.
Certainly if they manage to make axles that don’t break it would be most welcome but also at the same time it would be totally unique in the off-road segment.
Look up any off road forum for any make/model and (after the ubiquitous “what size tyre can I fit...?” questions) likely the #1 topic for discussion for serious modifications are axle swaps and axle upgrades.

So I don’t think it would be a failure if the axles aren’t bulletproof.  After all, it never hurt Land Rover.

My2c

[Red90]

With stock sized tires and drivetrain they should be unbreakable. It is a very easy objective to meet.

The fact that other makers do not do this is a poor excuse.

Carraro makes axles for industrial machinery. When you buy a tractor you expect the axles to last forever. It is no different here.

[Trevor]

So I don’t think it would be a failure if the axles aren’t bulletproof.  After all, it never hurt Land Rover.

My2c

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by that Matt. Their axles are one of the biggest failings of Land Rover. Interestingly, you see a good comparison within the LR line. Their Dana 60 copy is very strong relative to their own rover diffs and axles. Although the spline count went up over time, which helped, so too did the weight. When you start into things like the D2 which run only the rover setup, it's not a terribly robust design if you are going to load it up and work it.

That doesn't mean you can't be gentle and stretch them out, but between the weak axles or weak carrier design, it's not a very reliable setup.

[Red90]

Didn’t hurt Land Rover?  They lost the entire segment to Toyota and Nissan because they broke down all of the time. If they had made utility vehicles that where durable, they would have owned the segment and not gone under more times than you can count.

[Matt H]

So here is why I don’t think the entire project is a failure if the axles are not indestructible.

Toyota and Nissan axles also break. One ton truck 14 bolt axles break. Everything can break.
 
Land Rover axles are adequate stock if you don’t drive like a moron. All loaded up to near max GVW with modern overlander type crap and hard wheeling with big tyres and it is what it is. A light duty 1/4 ton axle. It’s gonna break eventually.

Overloaded and abused is something you can’t design for without massively overbuilding, which is not cost effective. I’ve repaired countless broken heavy duty and light duty truck axles that have been subjected to age and/or abuse.

Ag equipment axles aren't a fair comparison. They are totally different and do still break. I’ve also had to replace them.

Lack of value is what hurt (and still does hurt) Land Rover sales. That and poor build quality.

Land Rovers have always been expensive and always had poor build quality and patchy reliability. When it came to old utility Land Rovers you don’t get much in the way of creature comforts and gizmos. The Japanese products moved on, Land Rovers didn’t and that’s partly why I like them. Their main selling points were adaptability and they could be endlessly rebuilt.   

If the durability of the axles was a make or break factor for the entire vehicle none of us would ever own a Land Rover?

Having said all that, I hope they are stronger.

[Trevor]

Fair points Matt, and I don't disagree with your premise that everything will break.

I look at it this way though. The rover axles are the worst of most comparable offerings. And that's more so when you look at what the D110's and D1's were advertised to do...load them up with a ton of stuff and haul over any terrain. I think we'd agree they were under-built for that.

However if we use the armored car variants of the Defenders as an example we see a pretty good option build out that addresses the weakness in meaningful and reasonable way. Dana 60's front and rear. That would have been a great option to offer as standard on all 110's and 130's. I think with that config there isn't much I would find as a big weakness in the overall vehicle package. Sure, there's always something one can point at as a dislike, but overall its a pretty strong vehicle. Compare that to a D1 used on the CT's with LR axles, or a Defender with LR axles, and you've got an entirely different, and more vulnerable, vehicle.

I don't see the Grenadier being something I'd ever buy, but I think they'd serve themselves well to at least offer something similar to that Dana60 front and rear setup. At least as an option for buyers who want to use the vehicles and put them through their paces.

[Matt H]

Funny you should mention front and rear Dana 60s as an option Land Rover should have widely offered.
I have a set waiting to be built into my new replacement 110 project.

So while I profess Land Rover axles to be “adequate” it would seem I’m not really taking my own advice lol.

In my defence I am planning for something a little more than standard for that unit and I’ve wheeled my heavy old Rangie for years (often driving like moron) and haven’t broken an axle.....yet.

[binch]

I was just watching the latest video on the grenedier and they are saying now that the vehicle will have the bulk of it's assembly done in south wales, and be a "british built car".     So....what's happened to the old Mercedes plant they were going to use in Austria (or was it Germany)?    I also saw a suggested price tag of 50K GPD.   So we'll see where this leads, especially since it due to be released next year.

[Red90]

Do you have a link?  Are you sure it was not an old video?

[binch]

I think you maybe right on that John....the video that was bedded in with the article is from Aug 2020.   But the article was new....just car magazine hype.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ineos/grenadier/355270/ineos-grenadier-prototype-2022-review?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MediaTest

[Red90]

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[GR8PMKN]

It's kind of awesome...  I'm very tempted...  I know there were sketches of a pickup version, but have they said anything about going forward with it too?  If it has a good payload (better than a Gladiator or Tacoma), that would be a game changer for me.

[binch]

ooooooooooo....I LIKE candy!!!!!   But only 3 sheep....?!?

just open the doors and take the hose to it!!!    I like that!!!!

It's looking like it's going to be VERY interesting