Random camping fee

Started by headdamage, April 17, 2021, 01:29 PM

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binch

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!   No services what so ever but we'll be happy to charge you for this privilege.....   Does anyone remember when there was fee for random camping in Alberta?    I do remember when the AFS used to have organised campsites, and they were self administered (10 bucks in an envelope in the registry box, at the gate.)  But they at least had camping pads (road crush and a bitch to put tent pegs into) and an out house.     

Use the braniac that came up with this idea?!?!!? >:(
Cheers, Bill

Red90

This was part of the UCP election promise, so should not be a surprise. Page 85 of their election platform.  https://albertastrongandfree.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Alberta-Strong-and-Free-Platform-1.pdf

QuoteApply a mandatory $30 trail permit fee to Off-Highway Vehicles (OHV) and camping trailers to pay for restoring and creating OHV trails and preventing damage in Alberta's great outdoors, and to hire additional enforcement officers

However, there does not appear to be anything in the budget that shows increased spending for "preventing damage in Alberta's great outdoors, and to hire additional
enforcement officers".

ugly_90

...maybe it's all the "big boots" on the trail. Dunno.  :P

Trevor

#4
Quote from: Red90 on April 18, 2021, 06:31 AM


However, there does not appear to be anything in the budget that shows increased spending for "preventing damage in Alberta's great outdoors, and to hire additional
enforcement officers".

That's the rub. The policy makes sense if the funds are used as advertised. The Communists had a different path...roll everything up under Parks and cut-off access. Much worse.

The real risk here is that the funds channel to general revenue. This is, in effect, a PC party now. The Wildrose portion has been slowly worked out via policy changes. The PC's were masters of that sort funding two-step and feifdom creation.

Caution is definitely warranted. For the time being though, I have no issues paying at pittance for access yearly.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

B-Red

I have been following this development through the hunting clubs and the Leg Bill announcements. It will make sense if the money gets used on the parks. Time will tell.
My concern is the registration process.
"AlbertaRELM" is the platform used for hunting and fishing licensing and tags. It has improved last year and it is recognized for ability to carry digital licenses and permits. Off course as long as you have cell coverage!
The random camping permit will be sold through that site. So you have to create an account.
I was not clear if the fees are based on per person or per group on camping spot.
Either way this will apply to the hikers, the off-roaders or the equine sports.

Does BC have similar setup? How about Saskatchewan?

binch

The only purpose this serves is to get money into the general revenues.    I can almost guarantee there will be no benefits gained from the fee.    I wouldn't mind if they were to bring back something like the old AFS campgrounds where there was some servicing done for basic amenities.   But they have all me privatised and now what is being offered a whole lot of nothing for your money.     Another bit of OOOOOPS brilliance....... >:(
Cheers, Bill

Trevor

#7
Quote from: binch on April 18, 2021, 02:46 PM
The only purpose this serves is to get money into the general revenues.    I can almost guarantee there will be no benefits gained from the fee. 

I can't go that far yet, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

Fortunately the push to limit widespread access has not re-emerged (yet). That was a big push under the NDP for widespread closers via Alberta Parks. The work I was doing with the Alberta Parks field folks to keep Ruby Trail open was driven largely by moves by the higher ups to restrict access. From Grand Cache down to the Big Horn plans were in the works to close the bulk of the areas to motorized access. Internally those in the field were trying to keep a few main trails open (Ruby Falls was one of them). Their fear, rightly, was that without access folks just go out illegally, and that makes enforcement and maintenance much harder., and damage much greater.

Regardless, one needs to keep an eye on this, and see if some of those moves to close areas re-emerge (less likely) or funnel these funds into general revenue (more likely). Government needs to be watched, regardless of stripe.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

headdamage

#8
...

Trevor

#9
Quote from: headdamage on April 18, 2021, 11:52 PM
That newtube Covid is a Hoax video is terrible, those guys are major quacks!

Er, they say nothing about it being a hoax. Actually they state emphatically it is not. There's lots of misinformation on the CCP virus out there, but it's not from those two.

That said, if you watched the entire video you gained additional information not readily available via the MSM fear and lie machine, and made your own decision. That's a good thing. I will say nothing more on it in this thread. If you want to discuss it further, I'm happy to take it to private messages.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

B-Red

I raised two questions with Minister Madu this evening regarding the back country proposed fees?
1- Are the collected funds going in main revenue or are they going towards enhancing the parks services?
Answer: Funds are not going in main revenue. Funds are going towards enhancing services for Albertans in the parks.

2- Booking camping services on provincial, federal goes through two portals. Back country camping permit goes through a third portal. Would the government consider unifying the process under one portal so its easier for campers to access and for tourism?
Answer: Great idea and it makes sense. It will be presented to the Minister of the environment, Jason Nexon.

Cheers
Emad.

Trevor

Good job Emad.

So next year, the question for 1 just needs to be a follow-up..."ok, now prove it for us. "  ;D
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

binch

Quote from: B-Red on April 20, 2021, 07:08 PM
Funds are going towards enhancing services for Albertans in the parks.

Have a look at where the park boundaries are and what is not.    There's already a lot of land not labelled as parks included in the fee area.   They have a long way to go to able patrol and enforce these areas, with all the cut backs made in the forest service, parks and rec and fish and nightlife.     

Andrew...how many forest guardians were patrolling the area you worked and when was that?
Cheers, Bill

Red90

Umm. These fees are not for parks.  This is for crown land camping. Why would the funds go into parks?

Trevor

Quote from: Red90 on April 21, 2021, 05:20 AM
Umm. These fees are not for parks.  This is for crown land camping. Why would the funds go into parks?

That's likely the result of the amalgamation of the various departments under Alberta Parks back during the previous government. SRD used to look after Crown land I believe, but they're under Alberta Parks now.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!