Land use zone additions, changes.

[Trevor]

The changes are starting to materialize with the land use zones. SRD is now the ESRD and the main website has changed http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-public-use/recreation-on-public-land/public-land-use-zones/

They have more PLUZ's now, with Brule lake area becoming one of a few new additions.

http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-public-use/recreation-on-public-land/public-land-use-zones/brule-lake-plUZ.aspx

I'm trying to make sense of the new restrictions. They do not mention 4x4's for Brule Pluz (or Coal Branch Pluz) whereas they do in many of the other ones. I don't really know what that means. They only have one designated trail that can be used in the Brule Pluz though from what I can see, and a gravel road.

I also noticed this in "Motorized" section of the Recreation on Public Land pages...

"Keep wheels out of streams, rivers, and lakes. Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies"

"Driving in these areas produces harmful ruts and erosion problems. In addition, fine sediments stirred up by tires are harmful to fish."

That clearly states vehicles can't go near any water. I do not recall the old laws to be that restrictive. Is this the same as its always been, or is it in fact new wording?

Here's the section where I read it... http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-public-use/recreation-on-public-land/motorized.aspx

[Red90]

That looks like no trucks...  If you look at areas that allow trucks, there is this extra symbol.  Also says the area was created in 1999.  Map is 2012.



The whole management of these area is horrible.  It is impossible to understand the regulations.  There is little to no signage or information and what there is, can't be understood.

[Red90]

Brown 4x4, Green OHV, yellow just says "motorized access"

I think mostly we drive to the north outside of the FLUZ??

[Red90]

To point out the confusing system...  The castle area: http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-public-use/recreation-on-public-land/public-land-use-zones/castle-area-pluz.aspx does not have the 4x4 icon but if you look at the map, it clearly says trucks are okay.

[Trevor]

Hmm, maybe there was a Brule Pluz before then. I don't recall there being one though.

And right you are regarding the Castle link John, the map does indeed seem to give different info than the main web page legend for that area.

This is a bit of a bear to sort out...

[binch]

Well that is typical government rhetoric.    Makes no sense at all.

"Trucks, jeeps and modified 4x4 vehicles may not be considered OHVs."  Does this mean they aren't OHV's, or does it mean they maybe or may not be OHV's?

The whole thing is clear and tar!!!

[Trevor]

Heh, yeah, I read that same phrase and came to the same conclusion Bill. These guys are a real piece of work.

Its a real mess. When you look at areas where 4x4's are not allowed (basically any Pluz in and around Nordegg), they have the 4x4 icon with an X through it. And in McLean area the icon is shown, and they are referenced as allowed.

Then you look at Brule and Coalspur (and a few others), and there simply is no 4x4 icon at all. So what is that supposed to mean?

I'm just going to wheel, and if someone gives me a ticket I'll gladly run it through the court system. I'd love to get this in front of a judge and see if ESRD can explain the system to both of us.

[Matt H]

I think many folks will come to the same conclusion and go anyway.  Maybe they think by being deliberately vague and ambiguous people will err on the side of caution and not go anywhere at all?

I want some of those mudflaps that read "4 wheeling is not a crime".
This s#%t is ridiculous.

[Red90]

This subject tends to get me off on a rant.  It is all much worse down here.  Around 10 years ago they created about 20 parks from Sundre south to the border.  There was no public consultation, no announcements, nothing.  It just happened one day.  They did not tell anyone.  Even to this day, there is no boundary signage in most of these new parks.  Quite a few of them were ones that we used to drive in.  If they find you driving in them, it is massive fines, despite there being no signage.

In the Castle area they use winter and summer trail signs.  The summer sign is a quad.  You are allowed to drive anything other than a snowmobile.  The winter sign is a snowmobile and it is snow machines only....   In the Ghost, they use the EXACT same quad sign but it means OHVs only (no trucks).  This creates fun and exciting discussions on the trail.....

In the Ghost, an OHV is defined as any vehicle up to 65" in width.  A Series truck is legally a quad if you fold in the side mirrors.  Anyone want to plan a Series only Ghost trip? 

Mclean Creek, the rule is 50" is width, expect in the winter where the rule is 1000 pounds.

Willow creek, 800 pounds.

Most FLUZs north of the Ghost an OHV is defined as any vehicle under 1300 pounds + <72.8" wheelbase + <70" width.....   The wheelbase one kills side by sides, I think.

Why these strange limits?  No reason that anyone would ever be able to understand

[Red90]

It would be confusing buying a quad.

Here is a big one: http://www.polaris.com/en-ca/rzr-side-by-side/rzr-xp-4-1000-eps-voodoo-blue/specs
Overall Vehicle Size (L x W x H)   146" x 64" x 73.75"
Estimated Dry Weight (pounds/kg)   1,596 lbs (so over 2000 pounds with people and gear)
Wheelbase   117.0" (longer than a 110)

They seemed to have designed ones to fit exactly in the rules: http://www.polaris.com/en-ca/ranger-utv/ranger-570-efi-sage-green/specs
Overall Vehicle Size (L x W x H)   110 x 58.0 x 73 in.
Estimated Dry Weight (pounds/kg)   1,042lb
Wheelbase   73 in.

[Matt H]

The only thing that is clear in all of this land use mumbo jumbo is that the authorities don't want the public to have access public land. Maybe it interferes with their coffee breaks or something but we are definitely not welcome to use what is in essence, our own damn land!

We don't all want to live in cities 24-7.

[Trevor]

When I talked with the SRD VP (or whatever her title was) I raised this very topic....the problem with the disjointed PLUZ's and the confusion that results. For most of the subjects we discussed she was fairly open to different points of view and ideas. But on this one it was a very prompt, and curt, "the format will not be changed." When pressed on it she grounded her argument on the fact that each region is different, and has different needs, and those must be managed by regional bodies.

What this does is allow for regional groups to influence a PLUZ. The Nordegg area is a great example. The OHV clubs in that area are very well organized under one lobbying organization, and that org (and the big, local OHV retailers) has ties into the PC party. This played an important role in that area being off limits to 4x4's anywhere in those PLUZ's, whilst OHV's are permitted everywhere.

We see that everywhere through the province. 4x4's have the added challenge of facing off against the OHV dealers, who would like nothing more than to see all 4x4's go away and their owners buy OHV's. Much of the bad name 4x4 owners get in the public's eye comes from the OHV community/retailers. And those OHV retailers are big businesses in Alberta and many are savy enough to support their local PC party and the OHV lobby. For 4x4 shops...well, there are none of significance anywhere in the province. One can organize the 4x4 clubs, but without a hook into the PC party, and the willingness to funnel them money, it will be only marginally successful at best.

That's Alberta. Its been under only 2 fiefdoms for 80+ years. Affecting real change in this province outside the PC party simply does not happen.

[Red90]

It was all "supposed" to be "fixed" with the south Saskatchewan regional plan.  But that just seems to be a non-specific non-enforceable talking piece.  The whole different regions, different needs things is a bunch of BS.  It is just to allow local managers and politicians to have their fiefdoms.  Bribes and kickbacks are the way things get done.  ESRD is horribly corrupt.

To your point of the ATV crowd keeping 4x4s out.  When the Ghost FLUZ was created leaving 50 kms for 4x4s and 600 kms for ATVs, the minister in charge of SRD owned an ATV outfitting business located on the boundary of the new FLUZ.

[B-Red]

Political interference and special intrest group are always present no matter whom you have behind the helm. In the recent Outdoors tradeshow, 1/3 was boats,1/3 ohv quads, and 1/3 hunting fishing and conservation.
There was no presence for the 4x4 clubs, vendors or retailers. The car trade show is next couple of weeks and the 4x4s new models will all be there.

What we need is a joint gathering of the clubs to organize accross the province and creat a presence.
It needs to be done in various parts accross the province.

I will be up for a coffee meet if there is enough interest.

[Red90]

The 4x4 club have had organizations to speak for them and massive efforts were put in. The government screwed them over multiple times very badly. All the people that put years of work in eventually gave up as it was clear it was a waste of time.