Author Topic: There goes the Castle  (Read 10299 times)

binch

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2017, 06:29 PM »
Keep in mind that SRD does not exist anymore.  They were integrated into one group with parks, now called AEP (Alberta Environment and Parks). http://aep.alberta.ca/

Once upon a time the department that controlled all the small campsites around the province (that were not part of PARKs) was AFS (Alberta Forest Service) AKA "As Fred Says", referring the minister at the time Fred McDougall.   The days of forest guardians, afs campsites, dirt cheap camping and lots of summer employment for students.   Looks like we may be heading full circle ahhahahhhahah
Cheers, Bill

B-Red

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2017, 04:15 PM »
I came across this article about Mud Bogging fines in the Ocanagon area in BC. I am glad that they are catching such violators.

http://infotel.ca/newsitem/mud-boggers-getting-spattered-with-fines-in-the-north-okanagan/it39539#.WJ-aENs-VAh.email

B-Red

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2017, 10:25 PM »
I had a discussion with the fellows attending the booth st the RV ShoW today from the Parks. New maps are available for quaking in the Hinton area and in Kananaskis. The term OHV that they use only covers the quads class not SUVs or highway vehicles. Their advise was to consult with enforcement at Fish and Wild life before going into an area for clarity about some of these trails.

I am curious if anybody has the definition of OHV in the other legislations or transport Canada

Matt H

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2017, 10:40 PM »
It's deliberately vague. The message however is clear. STAY OUT!

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binch

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2017, 04:11 AM »
Tread lightly.....that's what we try and do.    You make a mess of an area you are sure to be shut down.    Makes sense to me.   John lead us on a couple BC trails all set up for OHV and the rules were clear.....if you wander off the track you will pay the piper!    The one trail we took through the sub alpine meadows and it was amazing country!!   Then you see a patch were folks were trying to high mark or climb a very steep section of hill with no other reason then to say they did it.     It's those idiots that ruin it for all those good folk that are trying to be responsible off road.    And there are more of them then you would think....unfortunately.
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Red90

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2017, 06:58 AM »
To be clear trucks are no longer allowed off road in this area either. That is explained in the plan separate from OHVs.  The definition of OHV is different for each location in the province.

Red90

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2017, 07:23 AM »
There seems to be confusion over what has happened in this area and I will try and explain.

There has been a trail system in place for a couple of decades.  The local quad club has developed a sustainable and well executed network of trails in conjunction with the government.  They have built dozen of bridges.  They have closed trails that had problems and built new ones that followed sustainable routes.  It is the poster child for how to create a good off road area.  All trails were open to trucks and OHVs with different trails for summer and winter.

The area is NOT being destroyed or "ripped up" nor undergoing any environmental degradation.  THAT is 100% propaganda to convince the unwary public that they are right in closing the area.  There is no science behind any of the decisions.  The trails are mostly old access roads that are hard pack, rock and very durable.

In September 2015, the government announced the creation of these parks (see my first post).  They put out this document: http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/6369189/castle-publication_20150902.pdf  It says.
Quote
Off-Highway Vehicles: Yes, on designated trails and areas
Snowmobiling: Yes, on designated trails and areas

The government then formed a committee in conjunction with the quad club to develop a new trail system.  They have been meeting ever since and at no time were told the area would be shut down.  The decision was NOT made by the people that were actually working on the issue.

This same game plan is what has been happening with every area in Southern Alberta for the last 40 years.

Trevor

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2017, 09:12 AM »


I am curious if anybody has the definition of OHV in the other legislations or transport Canada

Section 117
TRAFFIC SAFETY ACT
(a) “off-highway vehicle” means any motorized mode of
transportation built for cross-country travel on land, water,
snow, ice or marsh or swamp land or on other natural
terrain and, without limiting the generality of the
foregoing, includes, when specifically designed for such
travel,
(i) 4-wheel drive vehicles,
(ii) low pressure tire vehicles,
(iii) motor cycles and related 2-wheel vehicles,
(iv) amphibious machines,
(v) all terrain vehicles,
(vi) miniature motor vehicles,
(vii) snow vehicles,
(viii) minibikes, and
(ix) any other means of transportation that is propelled by
any power other than muscular power or wind,
but does not include
(x) motor boats, or
(xi) any other vehicle exempted from being an offhighway
vehicle by regulation;

Although this reads like 4x4's should be included in an OHV designation, I know from the experience of a few friends running on a trail up by Cardinal that was open to OHV, that the government absolutely DOES NOT view trucks the same as quads. They were ticketrd, they went to court, and they lost. However, they did not lawyer up which was a mistake.

Part of the problem is that each county or PLUZ can write a different set of rules. Moreover none needs to provide clear conveyance of those rules, it is simply your obligation to know them, and know what they mean...textbook example of the idiocy of government bureaucracy, and the burden it places on the populace.

So when its all said and done it is hard to predict what in fact will be happening in other areas. One thing is for sure though, 4x4's have no organizational lobby groups with any stoke. The quaders are the only ones with meaningful input as they are reasonably well organized in different areas of the province.

 
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Red90

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2017, 10:39 AM »
Each area has a specific definition of OHV that is written into the area management plan. Some areas use width, some weight. You have to look into the details for each location.

As far as the Castle goes they clearly state no 4x4 or any highway going vehicle.

Red90

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2017, 10:53 AM »
Quote from: Trevor
One thing is for sure though, 4x4's have no organizational lobby groups with any stoke. The quaders are the only ones with meaningful input as they are reasonably well organized in different areas of the province.

It does not matter. We used to have a big organized group. Massive amounts of work were done. After the Ghost fiasco everyone had reached their fill of being lied to and decided it was better to just not let the government know where we went driving.

There will not be any management plans that allow truck use period. It is an easy bone to throw to the environmentalists. The media has destroyed the public image of our hobby.

Trevor

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2017, 11:17 AM »
Quote from: Trevor
One thing is for sure though, 4x4's have no organizational lobby groups with any stoke. The quaders are the only ones with meaningful input as they are reasonably well organized in different areas of the province.

It does not matter. We used to have a big organized group. Massive amounts of work were done. After the Ghost fiasco everyone had reached their fill of being lied to and decided it was better to just not let the government know where we went driving.

There will not be any management plans that allow truck use period. It is an easy bone to throw to the environmentalists. The media has destroyed the public image of our hobby.

I don't disagree with that at all John, and I certainly wasn't suggesting we organize as I too think it is a fruitless effort. 4x4 use is a dying hobby in Alberta.

It's much easier (and frankly, pretty darn enjoyable) to take my dollars to the USA and support the towns, shops, gas stations, etc there than go through the hassle of fighting the idiocy here.
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Matt H

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2017, 05:59 PM »
What a shame. Alberta trail systems could be among the best and most sustainable in the world if only they could be developed properly.

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Trevor

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2017, 09:19 PM »
What a shame. Alberta trail systems could be among the best and most sustainable in the world if only they could be developed properly.

You get a snippet of what can be done from the perspective of 4x4 use and trail management in the Grande Cache area. The local 4x4 club in the area, TNT Off-Roaders, worked quite closely with SRD managing a fairly large trail network. Their club based, yearly ACE rally has been a pretty big success. It's a little snippet of goodness in our province at least. I'm really curious to see what happens now that SRD is gone and a new regime is in place for them to interact with.

I agree with you fully though Matt, they could do some amazing things in this province if they decided to.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 11:17 PM by Trevor »
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Already a Rover

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2017, 09:04 PM »
If they want to preserve the forests, why don't they stop logging in the West Country.  Shocking what I saw on Google  Earth the other night.

B-Red

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Re: There goes the Castle
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2017, 06:46 AM »
After going through the Mackenzie trip, I gained more respect for logging and forestry industries. Trees will burn, get sick and die. Proper strategies in harvesting them is critical for healthy forests. It's a balancing act.