The Bighorn

Started by Red90, November 23, 2018, 02:45 PM

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Red90

That is not quite right. Most areas have restrictions on the size of OHVs. Usually it is by weight. Sometimes it is by size.

It varies with each PLUZ which makes it confusing. Trucks do not fit in the size limits.

binch

I thought all quads using any crown land were required to have licenses and insurance.    It caused a problem on lands bordering BC/AB as the BC riders that crossed the borders were getting tickets by the AFS wardens/rangers.    ???
Cheers, Bill

Trevor

Quote from: binch on March 24, 2019, 02:46 PM
I thought all quads using any crown land were required to have licenses and insurance.    It caused a problem on lands bordering BC/AB as the BC riders that crossed the borders were getting tickets by the AFS wardens/rangers.    ???

I believe that is correct Bill, insurance and registration/licensing (whatever they call it) are required for OHV's.

Regarding the size requirements per PLUZ, to the best of my knowledge the different requirements per PLUZ have been done away with. I believe they simply deisgnate by OHV (which we are not) and highway vehicle (which we are, and which are allowed nowhere). We'd have to pull up the regs again though as they were changing over the last few years.

I think most PLUZ's now except McLean Creek do not allow 4x4's. 
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!


Red90

#34
Here is the law, page 140:  http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/t06.pdf

You could define a Defender within what is written. Not a well written law.

QuoteOff-highway Vehicles
Definitions
117 In this Part

(a) "off-highway vehicle" means any motorized mode of
transportation built for cross-country travel on land, water,
snow, ice or marsh or swamp land or on other natural
terrain and, without limiting the generality of the
foregoing, includes, when specifically designed for such
travel,
(i) 4-wheel drive vehicles,
(ii) low pressure tire vehicles,
(iii) motorcycles and related 2-wheel vehicles,
(iv) amphibious machines,
(v) all terrain vehicles,
(vi) miniature motor vehicles,
(vii) snow vehicles,
(viii) minibikes, and
(ix) any other means of transportation that is propelled by
any power other than muscular power or wind,
but does not include
(x) motor boats, or
(xi) any other vehicle exempted from being an offhighway vehicle by regulation;
(b) "vehicle" means a device in, on or by which a person or
thing may be transported or drawn and includes a
combination of vehicles but does not include a mobility
aid.
RSA 2000 cT-6 s117;2016 c14 s12

binch

Quote from: Red90 on March 24, 2019, 03:43 PM
Here is the law, page 140:  http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/t06.pdf

You could define a Defender within what is written. Not a well written law.

That sure seems to be the case doesn't it!??!    Any vehicle built for....   and the land rovers sure fit that bill.    But the whole thing sure is a head scratcher trying to sort it all out.   Falls under the category of 'Baffle them with B.S." doesn't it.... :o
Cheers, Bill

B-Red

I agree Bill. That's the feeling I got when I was asking the question.
I am asking for a permit sticker that says my vehicle is such and when I look at PLUZ maps, I expect to see where such designation can travel. You think they would figure that out.
MOAB was such an eye opener of how good partnership between user groups and government can lead to a vibrant recreational site with tourism benefits for enjoyment of the land in a responsible manor.

Red90

#37
Just looking around to see if there are still any size rules.

Willow Creek, under 800 pounds, https://www.alberta.ca/livingstone.aspx?utm_source=redirector  Interestingly, they have not set the trails yet for this new PLUZ.  They do say there will be trails for highway vehicles....but I don't expect much.

This is from the Livingstone Draft plan.
QuoteSummer motorized trails will be classified by vehicle type in
the short term (OHV and Single Track). As designated trails
are assessed and upgraded as required, the designation
will shift to a vehicle width based system. This system will
use a combination of notice (through Public Land Use Zone
maps) and signage, as well as physical barriers to only permit
vehicles that meet the designated width.

Red90

One of the Ghost PLUZ maps still shows width regulations. https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/2538d49d-1dd2-4e67-bbad-64f074e432e8/resource/1f698538-a522-4d06-b84f-81d24f8ececb/download/ghostpluzmap-may2018.pdf

OHVs:
QuoteMotorized vehicles with an
overall width up to and
including 1.6m (65").

Red90


Trevor

That section of the Act is interpretive, and that subsection is by no means exhaustive in its scope. The courts have interpreted the law differently than you are reading it. They are ruling alongside these parameter:

Who is a Motorized User?

Motorized users are outdoor enthusiasts who use Off-Highway Vehicles (OHVs) or, where permitted, road legal vehicles for off-road travel.
OHV

Alberta Traffic Act defines an OHV as a(an):

    Amphibious craft
    Dune buggies
    Off-road motorcycles
    Quads and trikes
    Snowmobiles

Trucks, jeeps and modified 4x4 vehicles may not be considered OHVs.

...this is a snippet from the document John linked above.

I know this to be fact because several friends from the NA4WDA were ticketed in an "OHV only" area in the Coalspur PLUZ. They fought the ticket on the very definition referenced above in the Traffic Act...that they were in fact OHV's...and they lost. They did hire council as well. Worth noting one of the rigs was offroad only, requiring trailering in and certainly not driveable on streets/highways. Did not matter, it is still not an OHV vehicle in the eyes of courts.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

Trevor

#41
Quote from: Red90 on March 25, 2019, 09:41 AM
Just looking around to see if there are still any size rules.

Willow Creek, under 800 pounds, https://www.alberta.ca/livingstone.aspx?utm_source=redirector  Interestingly, they have not set the trails yet for this new PLUZ.  They do say there will be trails for highway vehicles....but I don't expect much.

This is from the Livingstone Draft plan.
QuoteSummer motorized trails will be classified by vehicle type in
the short term (OHV and Single Track). As designated trails
are assessed and upgraded as required, the designation
will shift to a vehicle width based system. This system will
use a combination of notice (through Public Land Use Zone
maps) and signage, as well as physical barriers to only permit
vehicles that meet the designated width.

Good finds John. Whatever the intent, there is clearly a lot of the old system in place. As I noted in my last post the courts have a more restrictive interpretation insofar as Coal Branch PLUZ (I was mistakenly calling it by its old name, Coalspur)  is concerned. however insofar as its website is concerned, it does not have any grey area. OHV's only, and that does not include 4x4's.

https://www.alberta.ca/coal-branch.aspx

I would be curious to see how the courts are ruling in the other PLUZ's which have disparate info. I would suspect they are following the guidelines laid out here...

https://www.alberta.ca/public-land-use-zones.aspx
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

Matt H

The only thing that is clear is that nobody in control of any of these areas is in the least bit interested in allowing any form of motorized off road recreation by a road going 4WD.

I'm not sure why this is the case? Perhaps regular citizens are not trustworthy enough to be left unsupervised in the wilderness??

No Road Except For Land-Rover.

Red90

Quote from: Matt H on March 25, 2019, 01:06 PM
I'm not sure why this is the case?

They need bones to throw to the groups that want zero motorized access.  It is an easy bone to throw because the "4x4" crowd has given up fighting and has become too small to put up a fight.  The OHV groups are still big enough to cause a suitable stink to completely prevent their access.  It is all about who creates the most noise and who is really in charge within the bureaucracy.  Logic, science and reasonable discourse are not part of any decisions.

Red90

Quote from: Trevor on March 25, 2019, 10:47 AM
That section of the Act is interpretive, and that subsection is by no means exhaustive in its scope. The courts have interpreted the law differently than you are reading it. They are ruling alongside these parameter:

What would be nice is if they set a measurable parameter in law and then we don't need to worry.  The 65" width (side by sides are 64") would be a good one.