The Bighorn

binch · January 05, 2019, 05:00 PM

Quote from: B-Red on January 05, 2019, 03:02 PM
Don't hold your breath fellows. Big brother thinks people who show up are scary and intimidating hooligans. They cancelled the remaining four meetings. They blame social media and that misinformation is being spread. I truly find that to be very insulting. You form your own opinion.

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=623133C1EF930-CCDF-1345-57F4BE8B16565253

Actually those claims of threats and intimidation by the public ON the public would not be in the least bit surprising. It only takes one idiot and it paints the picture for everyone. So we must do our best to represent ourselves above all that nonsense, and be active but respectful and professional. ;)

Trevor · January 06, 2019, 06:52 AM

Quote from: B-Red on January 05, 2019, 03:02 PM
Don't hold your breath fellows. Big brother thinks people who show up are scary and intimidating hooligans. They cancelled the remaining four meetings. They blame social media and that misinformation is being spread. I truly find that to be very insulting. You form your own opinion.

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=623133C1EF930-CCDF-1345-57F4BE8B16565253

Truth is the new hate speech. :/

That's a real shame they did this. When the people you elect take the position that only they know what is good for you, and actively work to keep the public's voice out of the process, then there is a fundamental problem.

pechanec · January 06, 2019, 07:19 AM

There IS a fundamental problem: most of the electorate LIKE it that way. Saves having to actually THINK about issues.

Sent from my XP7700 using Tapatalk

Red90 · January 06, 2019, 08:32 AM

IMO, nothing is any different today than ever. There were just as many wackos before the internet as there is today. You would never hear from them. Now they have a platform to communicate with each other publicly and we can all see it if we choose. It also makes it easy for them to work each other up and organize.

That aside, public consultations never work and have never impacted anything materially. The decisions always have and always will be made by the bureaucracy who know how to expertly control the strings of the elected officials.

Trevor · January 06, 2019, 08:37 AM

Quote from: binch on January 05, 2019, 05:00 PM
Quote from: B-Red on January 05, 2019, 03:02 PM
Don't hold your breath fellows. Big brother thinks people who show up are scary and intimidating hooligans. They cancelled the remaining four meetings. They blame social media and that misinformation is being spread. I truly find that to be very insulting. You form your own opinion.

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=623133C1EF930-CCDF-1345-57F4BE8B16565253

Actually those claims of threats and intimidation by the public ON the public would not be in the least bit surprising. It only takes one idiot and it paints the picture for everyone. So we must do our best to represent ourselves above all that nonsense, and be active but respectful and professional. ;)

If you think this has anything whatsoever to do with their mytihcal bullying, I have some swamp land you might want to buy...it's got a bridge too!

B-Red · January 06, 2019, 08:59 AM

The discussions taking place on social media is more of an eye opener.
The last consultation session had six RCMP officers present. Not one single complaint was filled.
The Reeve in Brauzau County issued a statement expressing his disappointment and frustration with cancelling this process. A rally was being organized at 5 pm before the event.

Regardless of how this will move, we should conduct ourselves with the good stewardship of use of the land and conduct of professionalism.

camo388 · January 06, 2019, 01:57 PM

Quote from: B-Red on January 06, 2019, 08:59 AM
The Reeve in Brazeau County issued a statement expressing his disappointment and frustration with cancelling this process. A rally was being organized at 5 pm before the event.

I would have liked to have heard what the Reeve's opinion on this matter was. Oil and gas are the main industry out here and by the sounds of it, the government's proposal would have a huge impact in a huge area. Hopefully the public can see how the land use restrictions will really effect their lively hood and the future to their families. Will we be able to enjoy the beauty of the Bighorn only from existing walking trails or from our cars on the existing highways??

Trevor · January 07, 2019, 11:17 AM

Quote from: camo388 on January 06, 2019, 01:57 PM
Quote from: B-Red on January 06, 2019, 08:59 AM
The Reeve in Brazeau County issued a statement expressing his disappointment and frustration with cancelling this process. A rally was being organized at 5 pm before the event.

I would have liked to have heard what the Reeve's opinion on this matter was. Oil and gas are the main industry out here and by the sounds of it, the government's proposal would have a huge impact in a huge area. Hopefully the public can see how the land use restrictions will really effect their lively hood and the future to their families. Will we be able to enjoy the beauty of the Bighorn only from existing walking trails or from our cars on the existing highways??

They had some pretty significant resistance forming against them this time, and as Emad noted above in one of his links, some of these groups have uncovered the real dirt on what the Notley crew have been up to and the organizations (Y2Y) they've parachuted (illegally) in.

I suspect that is at the root of their bogus harassment story. It allows them to tank public discourse and push this through. Job killing? Yup, absolutely. Access restricting? Definitely, especially if you are a 4x4 or OHV user.

B-Red · January 08, 2019, 06:50 AM

There where posts regarding the aftermath of the Castle area park conversion. The ATV club president was identifying how they were promised in person that all the trails will remain. He says they hardly have any left for access. The plane crash site was mentioned as an example.

The public consultation process as process can be very productive. The mayor of Sundre had an interview on CBC770am about this. When they had AHS looking at closing 15 bids, they did public consultation and it resulted in good engagement and results for the community. He mentioned that this Bighorn consultation is done without having the plan properly finished.

They extended the deadline to Feb 15. With elections looming doin, we wait to see what will happen.

ugly_90 · January 08, 2019, 10:04 AM

On a separate note, I visited Wells, BC a few years ago. I met with some mining and offroad folks there. It seems that Yanks Peak was earlier open to offroad use, until some city folks from Quesnel came in with their Jeeps, high rev's, and wide tires, destroying an alpine meadow.

It seems unnecessary damage. We seem to have a sales tax, a carbon tax, but no idiot tax. Up here there's lots of idiots in jacked up trucks blowing black smoke on the highway and bush. Remote provincial rec areas around here are constantly full of ATV's in the summer, gunshots are common as their guns need testing and bottles need breaking I suppose.

Other people's children. How do you fix stupid?

B-Red · January 08, 2019, 10:43 AM

I agree John. Rocky area becomes ATV city on the weekends last time I was there.
MOAB as a very well used areas for recreation and camping. Ironically, it looked clean and untouched when I was there last time. Access was patrolled. Yet I don't recall being stoped or asked on any of these trails.
The other thread I started about BC identifies some good solutions for these problems.

Trevor · January 08, 2019, 11:16 AM

Quote from: ugly_90 on January 08, 2019, 10:04 AM
gunshots are common as their guns need testing and bottles need breaking I suppose.

Guns are meant to be shot, just like Land Rovers are meant to be driven! Mind you, they seem to get annoyed when I shoot at Liberals, so targets are the next best thing I guess.

Red90 · January 08, 2019, 12:29 PM

At least they told us in advance that these parks are being created even if they do not care what we think. In the past, they just made new parks without telling anyone. You just found a park boundary sign one day on your favourite 4WD trail.

Matt H · January 08, 2019, 01:29 PM

Creating protected areas won't stop morons from abusing them. They are already breaking the rules and will go and tear it up anyway. Especially with the super vague information they put out (or don't put out at all?). All that happens is the vast majority of regular folks that follow the rules will stop going and the morons will never get reported.

They can turn the entire province into park for all I care. Why not bring back prohibition on alcohol while they are at it?
This whole situation in Alberta is so ridiculous at the moment, I can't even....

B-Red · March 24, 2019, 09:18 AM

In a recent discussion with a park ranger during the Outdoors and Boat show in Edmonton, I brought out the issue with the off-road classifications. He identified the following:
OHV represents vehicles that do not carry license plates to drive on regular highways and roads. This covers quads, side by sides, dirt bikes and such. They do require insurance to be on the trails.

Highway vehicles are vehicles with license plates and insurance to drive on regular highways and can go on cutlines. They can't go on trails.

PLUZ areas provide marked trails for OHVS and Highway Vehicles.
Hunting seasons opens up some trails for highway vehicle use.
Local Parks offices across the province are best to contact before an off-roading trip.

Interestingly, a vehicle without a license plate and insured as OHV use can be used on the trails. So, a Landrover or your five ton cargo truck fits this exemption !!

Obviously, there is some work we can do. It's an election month. I am making the effort to talk to the candidates about a better definition for what vehicles can and can't do and move to a width and weight classification. Associate that with a permit/pass that eliminates the guess work.

Cloaborative lobbying and effort can work. Make your voice heard.
Emad