Defender TD5 loss of drive....clutch/mass/flywheel/gearbox failure

[grizzlychicken]

Hi there,
Firstly hello from a new member from Canmore. I have had my 2001 td5 110 defender for 2 years now.
I have a few questions and advice request.
So I was driving on the highway and heard some noise from my transmission/clutch area and then lost drive to my wheels. I could have the engine running after, depress the clutch ok, could even select gears with the clutch depressed and not depressed with no movement.

So today I performed open heart surgery!
I was looking for:
Input shaft/.gearbox failure
Clutch/mass flywheel failure

The clutch was replaced when I purchased the truck so was low on  my hit list. When I wiggle the input shaft I get quite a bit of play. Looks like more than the .6-1mm tolerance. There is also oil in the bell housing.

So a new gearbox......

The question I have is with the mass flywheel. I am not sure if the normal tolerance. It seems ok when I wiggle it.

Also there are some copper filings I found around the input shaft near the clutch plate. I thought initially that it could Be from the brass bushing but it seems to be from the clutch plate wearing a bit.

Thanks for any advice or help. I am doing reconstructive surgery in about a week if anyone wants to assist ;)

Thanks again
Shane

[ugly_90]

I've never seen a td5 engine, so can offer no help there. You mentioned you have oil in the bellhousing. Is it black engine oil or ATF/ gearbox oil? It sounds like you at least had a clutch failure of some kind. You should be renewing all the clutch hardware and slave cylinder at least. All flywheel bolts are at correct torque?

With the two driveshafts first indexed with a paint marker and then removed, does the gearbox rotate through properly, or is there a problem there? What is the state of your gearbox and transfercase fluids?

I would be reluctant to move into the engine much yet unless your trouble proves there.

[Red90]

That input shaft is hitting the throwout bearing guide.  It is not supported radially.  The engine is meant to locate it with the pilot bushing.  You need to check end float to see if the bearings are okay.  It is not specified as it is set when the mainshaft is shimmed.  The mainshaft is to be between 0.01 - 0.06mm so the input shaft should be similar.  If it is more than that, then a bearing is toast.

I'm not sure if that flywheel is okay.  They are a PITA...  If you think it is gone, I would switch to a single mass flywheel. Less hassle and cost, a little less smooth.

I'm not sure that I understood everything else.  You are positive it was a clutch failure and not something else further down the driveline?  Put it in gear and see if you can turn the gearbox input shaft.

As above, you need to deal with whichever is leaking, the engine or the gearbox.

[Red90]

Video showing worn out versus new DMF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yidI1ZzDkyo

[Red90]

Looking at your video, the DMF is dead.

[grizzlychicken]

Awesome. Thanks for the info and advice. The bell housing oil is dark but tracing it back it appears to be coming from the gearbox. Looking at it I am planning to replace the gearbox and clutch with mass flywheel. I am also going to do the transfer case as it is leaking and I believe it is a common issue. At the same time I will upgrade to an ATB limited slip diff in the transfer case for better winter traction control and change the gear ratio in the transfer case to 1.2 so it will work better on the highway. Well lower revs anyway.
Cheers
Shane



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grizzlychicken]

Ok so did some open heart surgery on my defender and have the transfer case and gearbox in my workbench now!  I just did a tear down on the transfer case and it is a little ugly! I am assuming the transfer case does not come stock with all the metal bits in the transmission fluid!


When I took the input shaft gear out it was totally stripped. I hear it is usually the teeth from the gearbox to the input gear that normally strips but was the outer gear for me:



There was a tone of free play in the input shaft gear bearings so I think that went first then probably stripped the gears as wasn't lined up:




Now to check gears for damage and replace and at the same time put a LSD in the transfer case, replace all the bearings and seals, put in a new intermediate shaft sleeve just because and then put it all back together :)

Let me know if anyone is bored and wants to see the guts of the transfer case. Of course you would have to come to canmore.

After this I am planning to strip the gearbox and rebuild it to freshen everything up!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Red90]

Wow.  That is ugly.  I've never seen that happen.  I've occasionally seen a tooth break.  It makes noise and you rebuild.  A completely stripped input gear with a fine looking intermediate gear is pretty hard to explain.  People run 700 hp through these boxes.

Personally, I would get a rebuilt box.  The shrapnel would make every part in the box suspect.  I would not reuse the other gears.

[binch]

Wow.  That is ugly.  I've never seen that happen.  I've occasionally seen a tooth break.  It makes noise and you rebuild.  A completely stripped input gear with a fine looking intermediate gear is pretty hard to explain.  People run 700 hp through these boxes.

Personally, I would get a rebuilt box.  The shrapnel would make every part in the box suspect.  I would not reuse the other gears.

Yup, a agree with John....throw the guts out and start from scratch with a rebuilt unit.

Ashcrofts or David Beaumont 4x4    These are two options you want to go with ;-)

[Alex C]

get a couple of used ones from Disco 1, your  aluminium housing should be OK the guts out of a D1 will get you set for a rebuild

[binch]

Rumour has it that there is a spare 1.2 ratio Lt230 transfer case (lockable, from a disco2) that has been rebuilt at the Sports Car Centre in Edmonton, and it's looking for a good home (for the right price of course)  8)   

But it doesn't have the LSD-ATB in it....yet.   But I'm sure that could be arranged.    You would save on the shipping on that one ;-)

[grizzlychicken]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the tips and offer for the transfer case. What is the going rate for a transfer case in Alberta theses days? Ie how much are you asking for the one you have?
I think I might be sorted. I talked to dave at Ashcroft and he was very helpful. Replacing the guts is the plan and a new sleeved casing as the bearing seat was damaged when the bearing collapsed.  I actually had already ordered more than 3/4 of what I needed already so will
Just need to pick up another gear and selector and all good.
I power washed all the casing and it came up super clean with no shrapnel evident and I am replacing the diff carrier shaft anyway with the atb and had a new intermediate shaft sent as mine was oval by .05 which is where the leak started I think.

[headdamage]

Used lt230 is usually around $500 depending on ratio, version, and condition.