Yeep diesels

[binch]

Found this article on the VM diesels in the Yeeps.     The door has been opened but now we have to wait to see what the market will do...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140626/OEM04/140629902/no-diesel-cherokee-without-grand-cherokee-sales-boost-jeep-brand

[Trevor]

Modern diesels are an interesting option in the SUV's, I'm not surprised that people are not flocking to them. I went through a similar excercise with my truck. For towing/hauling, they are great. But you pay a ton more for the diesel option and all that comes with it. If you're buying a Jeep Grand Wagoneer, towing/hauling is not what you are buying it for (or you shouldn't be at least).

Being that diesel is so expensive relative to gas these days, combined with the fact that the new gasoline engines are pretty efficient, diesels lose a lot of bang for their buck. Add in the fact that you are paying a big premium for the diesel kit, and I am not surprised they are seeing lack luster sales in the SUV market. If I bought a new Jeep, I don't think I would go diesel...the exception being if they make the Africa, then I'd look pretty closely at it.

[Red90]

Being that diesel is so expensive relative to gas these days....

Regular gas is the same price as diesel right now.  Always lower in the summer and higher in the winter.  We are at the crossover point.

I don't agree on the lackluster sales, in Canada, at least.  More Audi and BMW SUVs are being sold as diesel here over gas.  The better mileage and nicer driving characteristics win people over.

[Trevor]

Hmm, it was about a 10c gap the other day when I was at Hughes, at around a 1.04, and gas was the mid 90's for regular. Closest I've seen it lately is about 6c. The gap does tighten in the summer though, no argument there. But for the other 6 months of the year the gap is of course larger and more pronounced.

I'd be curious how many of these top end SUV's are diesels. I tend to only take notice of the real high end, gas powered rockets. Didn't even know Audi had a diesel powered SUV offering here.

The US is the market that matters though, that would be the one worth investigating.

[Red90]

Prices right now are dead even, at least here.  The overall average yearly cost is the same for the fuel once you remove influences of shutdowns.  http://www.calgarygasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D

The US is a different story though.  They have a higher diesel/gasoline fuel tax split.  In Alberta, gasoline tax is 23 cents per liter.  Diesel is 17 cents per liter.  Both plus GST.  USA average is 13 cents and 14.4 cents.

And Mercedes I should say.  Rarely see an ML that is not a TDI.

Audi Q7, 3.0 TDI, 240 hp, combined: 10.7 l/100 km city: 12.6 l/100 km highway: 8.5 l/100 km  About 30% better mileage than the gas version  specs for the ML350 are almost identical.

[binch]

They used to use the VM diesel in the RRC's but they were expensive to maintain, and much more difficult to get parts for now.     Alex was saying something about a CAT plant dedicated for N/A automotive diesels (in the states) was in the works.

Premium petrol (what most of the newer landies like) is still a lot more expensive then my diesel :-)

[Matt H]

I think they would sell more diesel powered units if it were commonly available in the low option Laredo GC and not just the top of the range units. Last I checked them out it only came in the high zoot high dollar GC.  Hard to swallow an extra $10K for a Diesel engine on an already overpriced $50K+ GC.

Diesels are not as attractive an option as the previous generations.

The latest 6.7l Ford unit in my 2014 service truck has four thermostats, two separate cooling systems, urea injection, DPF filters,   Cats that have burn cycles and zero space under the massive bonnet. Repairs are labour intensive and parts cost a small fortune.

Electronic controls and integrated emissions equipment is minimum $700-1,500 with more major components add up quickly to the value of the entire vehicle.

It's a throw away truck. After it has a few years and miles under its belt and it starts to require repairs it will just become beyond economic repair and be renewed. Glad I'm not on the hook for the bill.

Like all modern stuff it works great for now while it's new but has no long term viability. But things are not made to last these days. A short, low maintenance/no maintenance service life is what drives automotive engineering these days. Things are changing so quickly in this market a long lasting vehicle that can be maintained indefinitely is a very out of date idea.



The hay day of simple, reliable, frugal Diesel engines that changed very little year on year and can be field repaired have sadly passed a long while ago.

Sold my personal 06 Dodge diesel last year and if I were pickup shopping again today I wouldn't go for a diesel again. Gas alternatives are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run unless you tow big loads all day, simpler  to work on with less $$$ emissions controls.

Just progress I guess?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trevor]

The hay day of simple, reliable, frugal Diesel engines that changed very little year on year and can be field repaired have sadly passed a long while ago.

Sold my personal 06 Dodge diesel last year and if I were pickup shopping again today I wouldn't go for a diesel again. Gas alternatives are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run unless you tow big loads all day, simpler  to work on with less $$$ emissions controls.

Just progress I guess?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a very good point, and is a factor for a lot of buyers here. Modern diesels are marvels of complexity, with layer upon layer of things that will break or foul on you. And the addition of the ultra-expensive cat systems (that are high targets for thieves) adds another layer of "why exactly do I want one of these?" levels of questions.

I get why folks looking for a new SUV stay clear of them, especially in the US.

[Red90]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/142229-Spotted-some-testing-diesel-Rangies-stateside

[binch]

Oh there you go Trevor...major zoom zoom with torque and fuel economy. ;)

[Trevor]

Oh there you go Trevor...major zoom zoom with torque and fuel economy. ;)

John pointed out some good info earlier regarding the various high end brands offering diesel here and in the US. With Land Rover's new diesel, one really has to think they would be pretty focused on getting it overhere too, no? Especially if that high end market already is swimming in them and they want to compete there?

And if I recall correctly, I think I read a while back that the standards in the EU and the US were now aligned (or aligning), which should make this entire process much easier for the all these guys regarding emissions.

Now, that said, I'd still buy a supercharged gas pot if I ever got another Rangie. They're still the go-fast rides (although I really dislike the styling changes, so can't see myself buying another)

[Red90]

The diesel SUVs sell well in Canada but not so much in the USA which is a lot of the reason for lack of them in the market. Things are changing though with 1/2 ton trucks getting small diesel. As Trevor mentions the stricter euro emissions helps.

[Matt H]

Not sure why anyone with the coin for a new Range Rover, especially a Sport that's designed to haul ass, would even want a diesel?

Having said that I took a ride in then new 2013 or 12 D4 in the UK a while back that had the 3.0L V6 diesel and it was no slouch. At least as quick over the first 100' as our LR3 with the 4.4l V8 gas engine, if not a little quicker.

Rumour has it the new 4cylinder Land Rover Diesel we have been hearing so much about was designed expressly to meet and be able to be upgraded to exceed all current and future emissions standards in the major markets of the world?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[binch]

I had  ride in one as well....couldn't tell it was a diesel!    And the low down grunt from the start set you into the back seat.   sweat!!!    And that was a 2012 or something like that.....