Projekt Grenadier

Started by binch, September 27, 2017, 10:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Red90

A review from Matt's best buddy.


Trevor

That was pretty good imo. There's nothing there that I disagree with regarding his pro/con review of Defender's, and the eyeball review of the Grenadier.

I think he's on the right track with the price as well.  This thing will be expensive. Assuming it even makes it to Canada, anything below CAD$80k would really surprise me. If its capable and reliable and actually worth a shit, and small production run, it may well head into that $100k+ range if there's a demand.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!

Matt H

#77
Quote from: Red90 on July 08, 2020, 12:59 PM
A review from Matt's best buddy.

Ah yes, Captain Obvious!
The only thing that is certain is that if Ineos was to send him a demonstration unit to test and give feedback on it would be 2025 before they even get through the introduction.

He is right to be excited though. I am too. If it is to be a real global market vehicle including North America it will be a game changer.

Price is relative. I hope they could offer it for reasonable money. And by reasonable I mean around the $50 - $60K mark? With maybe a poverty spec unit for around $40K? However, we currently have domestic half ton trucks demanding in excess of $80,000. One ton pickup, be prepared to pay the best part of $100K! Discovery sport (so a rebadged Freelander) over $70K.
Even a Chevy Impala will run you over $40 large these days. Or to add more perspective, a damn side by side can set you back almost $30K.

If it comes in at over $100K it will be a novelty only. Pricing would need to rival the Jeep Wrangler to be a contender IMHO.

No Road Except For Land-Rover.


Trevor

You're exactly right with your comments on price Matt. It is indeed a relative thing.

On the one hand I'm thinking how/where it will be made. If it's a UK product with parts sourced from the UK or Euro area and not China, that's going to up the price a bit along with the quality.

Where I get to the 100k range is if it is a small production run but high demand vehicle. It could draw more buyers than there are vehicles available, and that starts running the price up at dealerships.

If it's made the way I hope it is going to be made, and keeps all things China f&*ked right off from their production line, then coming in below CAD80k (import costs, duties all pile in here too) would be a real shocker.
"You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves."
― George Orwell, 1984

Freedom Convoy Truckers -- Canadian Heroes!
Justin Trudeau --Enemy of the People!


Red90

Quote from: binch on July 08, 2020, 11:05 PM
But wait.....could they be moving the Grenadier Plant to France (from Wales)?????

If there is a functional plant built, that saves years in the timeline,

But it is more likely a way to get better terms from the Wales government. You do not become the richest man in the land by playing nicely with the other children.

headdamage

I would think Brexit might play into the final location as well.

Red90


Matt H

Hahaha, very funny. He's not wrong though. Price is what will make or break its future as a real commercial alternative or just a novelty.
No Road Except For Land-Rover.

Red90

#85
They did the drivetrain reveal today. Nothing surprising.

3 liter in-line 6 BMW engines in diesel and petrol.

ZF 8 speed auto. No manual option.

Custom transfer case. All gear. Full time  with manually selected high and low and manually selected differential lock.  Basically same design as LT230 from the little I could see. No mention of ratios.

They are 18 months into testing with 12 more to go. Plan is 1.8 million km testing in vehicle.

They are building 100 prototypes for testing around the world.

headdamage

Are we signed up to to test one?

binch

Cheers, Bill

headdamage

I wrote this somewhere else on the subject:

Yes modern autos are good but they are not manuals. I like driving a manual, it is fun, it makes me part of the machine and not just a passenger, and it just feels better. A manual does not need any wires or electronics/computers. If it goes wrong I can have a good idea what is wrong and if I can work around it to get home or not. If I drown my manual and it takes on water I can drain and refill it. Things I want in a Defender replacement; British, cheap, easy to work on, diesel, manual trans, little to no electronics, body on ladder frame, two speed gear driven t-case, solid axles, coil springs, etc... I can accept not having some of these features but miss on too many of them and it is no longer a candidate.

Realistically even the Defender, in it's later years, was leaving the Defender bubble so to say though at least you could still strip it down and rebuild it the way you wanted. Perhaps the true test of the Grenadier will be to see how practical or not it will be to strip it down and rebuild it the way a person wants it after the fancy bits start to fail. Can I buy a thrashed one in a few years and fit a Cummins 2.8r with TR4050 and LT230 into one for example.

I can't ever see myself getting rid of my exmil 90 that has a galvanized chassis, Defender 200tdi, LT77G 51A, Disco LT230, station wagon hard top, volvo 240 series seats, ARB rear diff, etc... However, there is room for a 110 substitute if one comes along that fits the bill, make the Grenadier ergonomically good enough and priced well enough combined with being easy to work on/maintain and I'll over look it not being made in the UK and maybe even not having a manual transmission, but it better be really good in all other ways to pull this off.

Red90