Alberta Land Rover Enthusiasts Club Forum
General => Technical Discussions => Topic started by: Trevor on January 04, 2020, 10:37 PM
I stumbled upon this video and thought I'd share it here. It provides a good overview of the various locker types, along with a lot of bench examples of the lockers themselves, showing how they function.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x40WGUtdaLI
Ashcroft do some good vids on how they work too.
Always good to find clear info on these things...especially when you don't know any yourself (speaking from experience) ::)
Agreed Bill. I kinda like stuff like this...gives a nice look at a subject matter, with enough detail to inform and educate but not so much as to overwhelm. The Ox locker was one that peaked my interest. I knew of them, but had never come across one. It's not an option for me anyway (well, not until I do a Dana 60 and 3-link conversion on the D2 at least ;->) but it was cool to see how they worked.
Nice video, but he explains the Torsen wrongly. They do not lock ever. They send more torque to the slower wheel up to a limit. And then he shows a Torsen T1, which is not the type used in a TrueTrac to confuse a bit more.
Thanks for pointing that out John....I wouldn't know any different otherwise ;-)
I got a pair of Detroit Lockers on the way from Bearmach for myself and another member. With the 10% off BMP10 code they should come in for under $800 each including shipping and fees. They are listed incorrectly as Detroit air lockers limited slip and are the cheaper than the listed trutracs but I checked and they are the 24 spline Detroit no-spin rover type lockers, just some cock up with the advertising department. I figured we might as well take advantage and with the 10% off code the very reasonable shipping cost is covered.
Here is the add:
https://bearmach.com/diff-detroit-locker-24-spline-ba-207a
Shipping for the two lockers is only $106.05 CAN which seems very reasonable. Another company in the UK wanted to charge me 300 pounds to ship a 200tdi intercooler.
That's quite a bit of dinero. Does the quality warrant the price?
Quote from: headdamage on January 07, 2020, 09:41 PM
I got a pair of Detroit Lockers on the way from Bearmach for myself and another member. With the 10% off BMP10 code they should come in for under $800 each including shipping and fees.
You can buy them via Britpart now, which may be lower cost. Of course, they are usually not hard to find used for much less.
Quote from: Worthington on January 10, 2020, 08:00 AM
That's quite a bit of dinero. Does the quality warrant the price?
You can get the Detroit's and Truetracs from Great Basin Rovers out of Salt Lake too. I had to replace mine a few years back and I believe it was around US$475 at that time. Where you would save money on that one is if you were going through that area and could pick it up yourself.
I didn't find a better price anywhere I checked. Just landed in Calgary for $780 (including shipping, duty, and gst) pending final visa check. Also haven't seen a used one for sale in a long time around here.
Very informative video about the various types. I ran Eatons true track on front and rear axles of my Defender and Disco 2 for last five years. They perform very well on the street and on the trails. I liked the minimum failure option with them vs air lockers.
The manual cable type was interesting. I may consider it if I convert any new vehicles ( hint hint lol)
I personally prefer the TJM Pro Air Operated Locker. The video below literally copies most of what was originally posted, however, it clearly demonstrates the "feature" of the e-locker and why this is not desirable, especially on a manual vehicle. It also very briefly touches on how the actuator for the TJM locker is superior to the ARB design. You will need to skip most of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nYZo--7Xh4
https://www.tjm.com.au/diff-lockers/pro-locker-accessories/pro-locker-actuator-167plact02.html
Shane
I'm coming up on 14 years and 100000 km on the Detroit locker in my 90. I've seen zero downsides to it and can't find any reason to want to go to a manual locker.
I like the ARB, especially in the front axle. I like I can turn it off for tight, high traction sections while retaining the improved carrier strength. There are some downsides of course but overall given the choice I'd go ARB front and rear.
My 2c.
Based on wheeling with John I feel the Detroit Locker works better in the back of a 90 than an ARB. I have an ARB and I've noticed that sometimes I have to turn it off to keep it from forcing me off of my line in some mud and snow situations, I then tend to loose traction and can't take advantage of it. In the same spots John just drives right through with the Detroit. If I hadn't been able to directly compare my ARB to John's Detroit I'd think the ARB was better based all I've read but in my experience it just works better in John's 90 than in my 90.
The situations I've thinking of have been ones where there is really bad traction on one side of the truck and fairly good traction on the other side. I've watched John drive through keeping a strait line no problem but when I take the same line with the ARB locked it will not stay strait and the truck turns away from the higher traction side quite dramatically. I think that these occasions also involved having chains on the rear which likely has something to do with it.
I'm going to take the ARB out of the back of my 90, put it in the front and put a Detroit Locker in the rear.
Quote from: Red90 on January 20, 2020, 08:43 AM
I'm coming up on 14 years and 100000 km on the Detroit locker in my 90. I've seen zero downsides to it and can't find any reason to want to go to a manual locker.
I can second that thought. In fact....I think it was John that set me on to the Detroit locker. I like it a lot too! Only down side I think I see maybe premature wear on the rear tires. But I do regular front to back rotations so it all comes out in the wash. I like the idea of the true track in the front. A simple tap of the brake peddle and they kick in. No muss, no fuss. They are just there. I like that simplicity. Ashcroft has a similar locker for the truetrac type. It's in Orville's (now belongs to John C.) disco 11. I was asking him why it was doing so well in the slippery sections of the Alexander Mackenzie trail and he told me "it's the Ashcroft lockers you got me to put in the front and the back!?!?" Seems I forgot all about those LOL ;D
If you are buying a new manual locker for a Rover style differential, then the Ashcroft air locker makes the most sense. It was purposely designed to get rid of the parts of the ARB that fail.
What someone should build is a manually lockable Torsen.
I thought Ashcroft originally said they would have a manually lockable version of the ATB diff? Don't see it on their site.
Not sure if I'd buy Ashcroft again after my bad LT77 that they will not replace. The time based warrenty expired before I fitted the box which turned out to be faulty. Bad 1st 2nd synchro and/or set up.
Edit...
Just heard back from Ashcrofts. They will cover the parts to repair it but I'll need to find a shop over here to do the work. Does anyone in Alberta work on the LT77? I know a place in Victoria but that is a shipping issue.
I think they might repair it if I shipped it back to the UK but I'm guessing that might be expensive. Anyone know a good shipping option for returning it to Ashcrofts?
Sorry to hear you had bad luck with your LT77.....We've had very good luck from them so far. Another place to look at is David Beaumont 4x4 up in Hull, uk. They are the gearbox place in the north to go to...just not as well known.
Never had anything go wrong with an ARB. If I do I'd like to think ARB parts are more widely available than a TJM or Ashcroft. I've run them front and rear with stock axle shafts and CVs in the Rangie for years. They are predictable in as much as when you turn them on, they are on. Full lock like a spool or no differential at all. I'm not left wondering what's going on with the offside wheels. They are all turning the same speed under power, under engine braking and when coasting. When off, they are off. Fully open. Handy for tight maneuvers.
You do need to adapt your approach to driving and how you set yourself up for any given obstacle but that is true of anything I drive off road. My full open diff 110, ARB locked Rangie, stock 4wheel traction controlled 04 D2 and the terrain response in the LR4.
Years ago I wheeled a full sized Chevy truck. I put a Detroit in the rear 14 bolt and found it to be a bit of a handful in the wet on the street and if you had to make a tight turn near the top of a steep climb on the trail it wasn't the best. But as with anything else, the more seat time I had with it the more I learned to drive to play on it's strengths and minimize the weaknesses. It never failed on me though and I never broke an axle.....but that was a Corp 14bolt and they are hard to break.
Got to say, the terrain response on the LR4 is the most active of all the various systems I've ever tried. I never really know what the heck is going on!
Each to his own. I don't really think one system is significantly better than the other in the hands of the right driver.
I swore off Detroits for years after one outing with a ford pickup that had one, it was terrible on any sort of side slope. However, like I've said I've seen John's in action for years now and I've another friend with one and it seems they loose most of their quirks in a full time 4x4 compared to a part time.
Yep. Don't knock until you try it. There is no bad behaviour. You can't tell it is there. It does not reduce the turning radius. It does not cause the back end to slide sideways.
Quote from: Matt H on January 22, 2020, 01:50 PMNever had anything go wrong with an ARB. If I do I'd like to think ARB parts are more widely available than a TJM or Ashcroft.
The Ashcroft air lockers are around 1/3 lower cost than an ARB. Even when I lived in Australia 20 years ago, nobody in the Land Rover clubs suggested using ARBs. There are better options there at the same price point. Everyone used Maxidrives. With the lower cost and better design of the Ashcroft, it makes the most sense if you are buying a new manual locker for a Rover axle.