Alberta Land Rover Enthusiasts Club Forum
General => Technical Discussions => Topic started by: xmod109 on November 14, 2018, 09:19 PM
So I have completed the transplant of a 2.5 NA into my Series 3 109. After a day of bleeding the system and fixing issues, I managed to do 2 initial starts without the intake filter or any exhaust connected and it quickly ran away so I shut it down. ;D
That was the middle of October. Since then, I manufactured a 2" exhaust for it and put a cone filter on the intake.
Now it won't start. It cranks, drains the battery, smells like burning starter and refuses to start. I have bled the filter...again.
I have bled the injector pump...again
I have cracked lines at the injectors...again
I would appreciate any solutions you may have to my dilemma, except the "pour petrol all over it and push it out of the garage before lighting" or "put in a TDI5"
Thanks
I wonder if for some reason the fuel shut off is not opening. But then I suppose this would not be the case if you can bleed the injectors??
Fuel shutoff is opening. Im thinking maybe the lift pump is week and not building up the pressure to the injector pump....maybe?
So this weekend I went to install a new lift pump....but had ordered the wrong one. (So if anyone needs a diesel lift pump for a 2.25 or early defender w/side ports, give me a shout)
Changed out gaskets on the fuel filter and banjo fittings so those are not leaking.
Re bled the entire system, including the injection pump, changed the solenoid valve, and
No matter how hard i crank it, no fuel, zero, nada, comes out the injector lines.
Does anyone have a breakdown for overhaul of the FIP? I am wondering if there is supposed to be a pressure /check valve at the fuel bypass port that regulated internal pump pressure?
Or maybe the lift pump is too weak
If you are able to bleed the fuel system at the injectors then I wouldn't look to lift pump just yet. Even with a totally failed lift pump most old school diesels will at least idle.
I would run tests on the injection pump and injectors, assuming timing is good?
Will it run on ether? Some diesels are notoriously difficult to start if air gets into top end of the system and gets smashed into tiny bubbles.
Quote from: Matt H on November 26, 2018, 06:31 AMIf you are able to bleed the fuel system at the injectors then I wouldn't look to lift pump just yet.
He is not getting fuel at the injectors.
Quote from: xmod109 on November 25, 2018, 06:16 PMNo matter how hard i crank it, no fuel, zero, nada, comes out the injector lines.
Have you verified the lift pump is pumping air free fuel to the injection pump? Disconnect the line into the pump and stick it in a bucket. Crank the engine. You should fill the bucket quickly with clear, air free fuel.
If that test passes, hook it back up. air you getting clean air free fuel from the body bleed on the injection pump when priming?
OK,
New Lift Pump works better than the old. Nice air free feul at the filter and the FIP bleed screw.
However, the FIP is bypassing fuel back to the filter and nothing is coming out of the lines at the injectors.
Is there supposed to be a ball / check / pressurizing valve under the return port adapter of the FIP?
I cant find any info or breakdown on it. Aaargh! >:(
Well this is interesting.....I'm very curious what the issue is and why it won't fire up. :o
And I've just determined that the one way valve at port 3 of the fuel filter is now a 2 way valve. Anyone know the part number so I don't have to order 4 before I get the right one? ;D
I wonder if that's the one on mine that I used for the supply to the diesel heater?
Dave Lovelock may have a new filter mount in his stash of stuff.... ::)
Anyone have an extra Defender fuel filter housing check valve lying around? Or maybe a part number?
AAU3509
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Thanks
OK, new check valve installed, bled it once again, cranked it til i need a charge and still no fuel at the injectors.
I'm about ready for someone to come over and drag it up and down the street ;D... or maybe just far enough away so that the flames won't melt my siding >:(
You need to go through the high pressure side of the pump and fuel rails. Do you have a pressure gauge?
Nothing to pressure check, There is nothing coming out of the lines to the injectors.
Sounds like the solenoid is not working or the line from the solenoid is plugged.
The solenoid is fine and fuel bypasses through the pump but its not hitting the injectors. Might be a big airlock ooooorrrr the FIP is pooched.
The solenoid only stops the fuel going to the injectors. It does not affect the bypass flow. If the line go stuff it it after the solenoid you would get the result you have.
I've tried 2 different solenoids with the same results so is there a way to clear the line?
Unless you can get at anything that you can see when the solenoid is out the pump would need to come apart.
Have you also verified the solenoid is getting powered while the engine is cranking?
I never considered it might lose power during the crank but I will verify that tomorrow.
Quick way to check that would be to hot wire the solenoid directly from the battery.
Good call on the Stop Solenoid as voltage was dropping to 7v on crank... Jumpered it straight to the bus and......no change. Still no fuel, changed the solenoid and dry tested, everything worked as advertised but still no fuel going to the injectors.
There is however some shiny metal flake / particles in the solenoid well......nice in a snow globe, not in a fuel pump......
So i'll be draining the rad to get access to the front plate and changing out the FIP.
Why do I like Land Rovers????
I read through your posts. I assume this is an unrebuilt 2.5NA, that you're fitting in a series? All fuel system componants were as-is used then of unknown history? Only lift pump is new?
Yes, I rebuilt the engine before installation but didn't do any work on the FIP. New timing belt. The engine sat for a few years after the rebuild.
It started twice after the install but with no exhaust or air filter on it so I shut it down pretty quick as it started to run away. It hasn't run since.
I wanted to rule out everything else before the FIP as I really didn't want to have to strip the front again but not much choice at this point. I have another pump that is "supposed" to be good so I'll give it a go after the the frustration and desire to beat it to death with a sledge subsides.
Perhaps i'm stating the obvious here, and I can understand your frustration. Have you priced out a new OEM injection pump, and four rebuilt OEM injectors?
The Britpart OEM injection pump and Allmakes OEM rebuilt injectors seem to be affordable. I'm unsure of the provenance of that BP part, but it may be your best option at this stage. The injection pump does have a very low margin of error before you start having potentially major problems. I was not happy with the BP lift pump, as it failed on me. The OEM lift pump seemed unavailable, and the genuine was expensive. I selected the Allmakes Chinese aftermarket lift pump, which was in at least a different manufacturing run than the BP part, as the assembly differed slightly.
Quote from: ugly_90 on January 15, 2019, 08:28 AM
The OEM lift pump seemed unavailable, and the genuine was expensive.
Aftermarket lift pumps are crap. OEM are available.
https://www.lrdirect.com/ETC7869-supplied-by-allmakes-branded-delphi.html
https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-defender/defender-90-and-110/parts/engine/etc7869-g-delphi-fuel-lift-pump-2-5d-2-5td-and-200tdi.html
Make sure you are using a sedimenter. Any dirt will jamb the non return valve in the lift pump open.
The Britpart injection pumps are from CAV (thus OEM). New, not rebuilt. But seem to not be available right now. I would talk with Bill. He also has a rebuilder that can be trusted.
Thanks for the info,
I have new injectors ready to go and a used FIP that I was told was good but I'll talk to Bill about a shop to rebuild / inspect it so I hopefully wont run into any problems.
The injectors for the 2.5 N/A diesel are dirt cheap and not worth repairing. The 200tdi are an arm and a leg and definitely worth rebuilding by a reputable outfit. 300tdi is somewhere in between LOL
The outfit I like to use is in the UK and it's called Breedon & Gell https://breedonandgell.co.uk/ (https://breedonandgell.co.uk/)
It's expensive to ship but in the end it's still cheaper then getting it done in Edmonton (I learned this the hard way, so others don't have to) >:(
But before you send it to be rebuilt.....ask what a new one is worth (hint - VERY Inexpensive)
But give your other FIP a shot and see how you make out first....
Hope it helps.