A little comparison

[Red90]

Land Rover have always built an aluminium bodied diesel Defender??
Given the effort taken to use aluminium and diesel power trains with other models it would be a stretch to think that after all these years they would go any other way with any Defender replacement.

They will build a re-bodied Discovery 5.  Independent suspension with unibody on a sub frame.  It will have a diesel and aluminum skin, probably even an aluminum sub frame, with a better body for off road than the Discovery.  The loss of the body on frame and live axles kills it for hard off roading as well as real expedition use, IMO...

Jeep has already made it clear they are sticking with body on frame and multilink coil live axles.  This is the right way to go, but the designers at Land Rover would not know a hard off road trail if it ran over them.  The engineers at Jeep not only know a hard trail, they market the trucks for that use.

I would not be surprised if Jeep do off this body style.  It would sell well to the soccer moms.  After they eat half the depreciation, there will be tons of them around to pickup.

[Matt H]

Interesting. I hadn't heard it confirmed that IFS and IRS was going to be used?  I did read the styling had been signed off on and the aluminium body on chassis design of the new RR and RRS was being used, but that's a good thing as it is super light for its size and really stiff.

[Red90]

IIRC John your jeep is the two door unit with a manual gearbox? I'm purely comparing the stock four door units in general and the Africa concept in particular. I've driven both two and four door Wranglers and the difference is dramatic, especially if the two door has just the rag top.

I would rate your 90 as being as one of the most comprehensively set up units I've ever come across on this side of the pond. Lots of nicely thought out mods. I would expect to get quite a good sum from somebody that knows what he's looking at.

My 90 is 5500 lbs empty....  I could only dream of these 4500 pound trucks.  D2 and LR3s are over 6000 easy.  Time to take yours to a scale.

Of course my wife's Jeep was a manual and a short wheelbase.  Only girlymen would buy an auto.  4 doors are for soccer moms.  ;)

I think you are tainted by Dave's horrible experience.  He must have had a lemon.  Our truck had tons of power, used no oil, was fuel efficient and was dead reliable.  It was faster than most cars on the road.  I never weighed it, but I doubt it was more than the 90.  The hard top is maybe 50 pounds total, so that is no excuse.  Sure a LWB is a bit slower off the line, but no different to comparing a 110 to a 90 and they still sell those with a 122 hp engine.

[Matt H]

If you removed the Saturn V rocket sized heater and 10" of insulation the 90 would probably be lighter lol. My Rangie started life at 4400lbs but is way more than that now and I still have a rear bumper and tire carrier to build. My next project (white elephant) is going to be as lightweight as possible.

I got the curb weights from the Jeep website and my DI owners manual.

[Red90]

I got the curb weights from the Jeep website and my DI owners manual.

Land Rover has a magic scale at heir factory. I've never found a truck within 500 lbs of their numbers.

[Trevor]

Of course my wife's Jeep was a manual and a short wheelbase.  Only girlymen would buy an auto.  4 doors are for soccer moms.  ;)

<-------- Girlyman, and proud of it  ;D

I'll be first in line to take an auto over a standard any day!

[Matt H]

I got the curb weights from the Jeep website and my DI owners manual.

Land Rover has a magic scale at heir factory. I've never found a truck within 500 lbs of their numbers.

The DI was actually 4465lbs. I rounded up so you could sneak in 35lbs worth of white rimed sunglasses, skull themed hoodies and Monster Energy/Metal Mulisha stickers that are apparently mandatory for anyone driving a JK.

[Red90]

And the Defender manual says mine is 3770 lbs.....  There is no way in hell it could ever weigh that little.

[Matt H]

Probably did weigh that back in 1980's when your 90 was delivered to the Army. I weighed a lot less in those Army days too lol.

[Red90]

A stock DI tips the scales at just under 4500lbs. A stock four door JK is 1000lbs heavier.

http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/mediasite/specs/2015_JP_Wrangler_Unltd_SPchdg022aq6le4f47b35q05lm6t.pdf

CURB WEIGHT
Wrangler Sport, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,075 (1848)
Wrangler Sport, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,100 (1860)
Wrangler Sahara, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,269 (1936)
Wrangler Sahara, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,294 (1948)
Wrangler Rubicon, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,315 (1957)
Wrangler Rubicon, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,340 (1969)

and 2 door around 200 to 300 pounds lighter.

CURB WEIGHT
Wrangler Sport, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,760 (1403)
Wrangler Sport, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,785 (1413)
Wrangler Sahara, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,951 (1475)
Wrangler Sahara, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,976 (1484)
Wrangler Rubicon, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,104 (1532)
Wrangler Rubicon, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,129 (1541)

[Red90]

Probably did weigh that back in 1980's when your 90 was delivered to the Army. I weighed a lot less in those Army days too lol.

That would be magical indeed as my truck was built in the 90s.  :)

[Matt H]

A stock DI tips the scales at just under 4500lbs. A stock four door JK is 1000lbs heavier.

http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/mediasite/specs/2015_JP_Wrangler_Unltd_SPchdg022aq6le4f47b35q05lm6t.pdf

CURB WEIGHT
Wrangler Sport, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,075 (1848)
Wrangler Sport, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,100 (1860)
Wrangler Sahara, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,269 (1936)
Wrangler Sahara, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,294 (1948)
Wrangler Rubicon, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,315 (1957)
Wrangler Rubicon, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,340 (1969)

and 2 door around 200 to 300 pounds lighter.

CURB WEIGHT
Wrangler Sport, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,760 (1403)
Wrangler Sport, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,785 (1413)
Wrangler Sahara, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,951 (1475)
Wrangler Sahara, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 3,976 (1484)
Wrangler Rubicon, Manual Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,104 (1532)
Wrangler Rubicon, Automatic Transmission (lbs./kg) 4,129 (1541)

I think you will find those figures are for the base models. Or are you saying Jeep are also way off on their published curb weights?

[Red90]

I think you will find those figures are for the base models. Or are you saying Jeep are also way off on their published curb weights?

??? I linked the source, which is the official specification for all trim levels of the Wrangler, straight from Chrysler.  You stated they were 5500 pounds, which is not the case.  It also shows the difference in 4 door and 2 door is not very much.

[Red90]

The DI was actually 4465lbs. I rounded up so you could sneak in 35lbs worth of white rimed sunglasses, skull themed hoodies and Monster Energy/Metal Mulisha stickers that are apparently mandatory for anyone driving a JK.

[Matt H]

Your right John. Looking back I see where I was mistaken. The spec I refenced is gross vehicle weight. Not curb weight. Need my reading glasses on when I search for info on my phone.

So there you have it. Turns out 4 door JK's are lighter than older SUV's with less than half the power. In that case I have no idea why they bend axles and feel slow and underpowered?