110 Air helper springs.

[Matt H]

Looking at new springs for the rear of my 110. I'm carting about lots of camping gear and tools etc. temporary weight. Plus I'd like to fit a full roll cage and will eventually also have 33" spare tire on the back permanent weight.

What's the current thinking for rear springs? A medium rate spring with air helpers or just go full on heavy duty springs? The only problem I'd have with air helpers is if it gets damaged off road when I'm all loaded up.

Thoughts?

[Trevor]

I ran into similar problems with my Camel Matt with load carrying. It originally had helper springs, but they were long since removed. I am not sure what exactly it had in the rears when I got it so I started from scratch and went with all new Land Rover Original springs, with the helper-spring setup in the rear (medium weighted spring with the inserted helper spring).

I REALLY like this setup. I cannot overload it, and I do pack A LOT of stuff when I go out camping with my buds. Also, when the vehicle is unloaded it still rides quite nicely and is not jarring at all. I especially like it because it is simple, nothing to break (air lines, bags, etc), and it just works. Worth noting I am runing Fox 2.0 resevoirs on it as well which does add a lot insofar as overall ride quality/handling is concerned.

My two bits anywhooo.

[Red90]

I've run air helpers for a decade. It is the best way to go in my opinion when you carry variable loads. They are very durable and I've never had one break. They are cheap so you could carry a spare if it was a concern.

[binch]

I've run air helpers for a decade. It is the best way to go in my opinion when you carry variable loads. They are very durable and I've never had one break. They are cheap so you could carry a spare if it was a concern.

But don't you need on board air supply John?   Or can you fill them when you need them at a station?

Here's the info Trevor sent me a year or two ago on the parts required for the helper conversion.....

The part numbers are:
helper springs - RRC3266.
Top retainer - RRC3352
Bottom retainer - RRC3355.
You may also need longer bolts but I can't remember (FS110301L, 2 per spring).
And as I realise as I look at the diagram, the bottom retainer fits OVER the retaining plate (the one that holds the original spring), but the bolt holes must align with the plate and the captive nuts on the axle to allow the thing to be bolted into place.

You may try finding page 442 of the "Defender 110 1987 onwards" catalogue (that's the page I'm looking at - I got it from Allmakes when ordering the parts donkeys years ago).  Prices are very reasonable for us ;-)

[Red90]

You can fill them up whenever. They don't leak.

[binch]

You can fill them up whenever. They don't leak.

There's an alternative then.    You can have the best of both worlds without having to remove hardware....something to ponder ;-)

What type of airbags are you using?   The firestone ones....?   

[Red90]

What type of airbags are you using?   The firestone ones....?

I'm using the Airlift ones.  (http://alre.club/Forum/index.php?topic=274.0) I had Firestone before, but I found after a while that the push connect tubing fitting would leak a little, probably from the rough life off road.  That all said, I don't think Firestone does a 110 kit anyway.  They do make a spring of the correct size, but not a kit that I know of.

The 110 kit from Airlift is 61724.  As discussed in the thread above, it uses a 10.5" long bag and can be bought through Britpart or locally.  Locally is cheaper.  The one thing I had trouble with on the 90 was the plastic upper support getting chewed up over a few years and ended up making my own.  There is a place in South Africa (I think) that makes an upper support with metal to fix the issue on 110s.

http://www.lowriders.ca/i-18936688-61724-air-lift-1000-air-spring-kit.html
https://www.truckspring.com/products/Air-Lift-1000-Kit-Rear__AIL61724.aspx

https://www.britpart.com/parts/suspension-and-axle/springs/air-lift-kits/da5010/

[Matt H]

So the coil helper/overload type springs you are using are similar to the 130 set up Trevor? I'm also going to require new shocks so I will look into the Fox units.

I like the air lift option too. I'll be running an onboard air system anyway for my lockers so that won't be a big deal to plumb into. Just a bit concerned about poking a stick into one miles into the bush. But if you haven't managed it in ten years John then I'd be pretty unlucky to do so and as you say, they are cheap enough and light enough to take a spare.

My 110 SW has the stock Boge type load leveller. Not sure if that is going to stay at this point. After monkeying about with the spring rates and helpers etc it may just turn into dead weight?

Thanks for the part numbers Bill. I will look into those.

Thanks for ideas Chaps.

Now, what  are you guys running in front? Going to have a winch and winch bumper and possibly a military style bonnet with a spare wheel up there. From what I've read so far stock Land Rover 90 rear springs seem to do the trick?

[Trevor]

Matt, here's all the parts I purchased. The fronts were the heavy duty Defender springs. I'm not sure if the rear coil setup is the same as the 130. I "think" (not 100% certain though) that they may go with the heavy duty rear spring + the helper spring, where as the 110 setup has the medium duty rear spring + helper spring. Again though, not 100% sure on that. I do know that my medium duty + helper spring work really well for loaded and unloaded travel.

All of the springs are LR Original.

QTY   PART  NUMBER   PART DESCRIPTION   (BP or  LR)
         
1   NRC6389   Driver-Rear Spring - Red   LR
1   NRC6904   Passenger-Rear Spring - Green Red   LR
6   FS110301L   M10x30 Bolt, Heavy Duty Suspension   OEM
6   WA110001L   M10 Washer, Heavy Duty   OEM
6   WM110001L   Washer - spring 5/16"   OEM
2   NRC4318   Retainer   LR
2   RRC3266   Spring - rear suspension coil helper   LR
2   RRC3352   Retainer - Heavy Duty Suspension top - coil helper   LR
2   RRC3355   Retainer - Heavy Duty Suspension bottom - coil helper   LR
1   NRC9448   Driver - Heavy Duty Front Spring - Blue Red   LR
1   NRC9449   Passenger - Heavy Duty Front Spring - White Yellow   LR

[binch]

This has been a very informative thread!   Can we lock this one up top along with John's Oil and Spring threads.   Great stuff guys..thanks ;)

[Red90]

110 front heavy duty springs are the same regular ones used in the rear of 90s. You can usually find a set lying around.

[camo388]

All this talk about Defender coil springs had gotten me curious so I went out to look at what my 110 has.
I have to thank John for making up a chart,  http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html   
From this chart I found that I have exactly the same springs that Trevor has listed part numbers for.  The chart shows the same as John says, the 110 HD springs are just regular 90 rears.
I have an ex- military, plain hard top, FFR.  I don't know if the military normally fits the Heavy Duty springs to all their trucks or if it is because this truck is FFR and could normally carry the load of radios, batteries and radio operator, that HD springs are fitted. 

So Matt depending on what 110 you have, you may already have the HD springs and you may only need to consider the helper springs or airbags.  ;D

[Matt H]

Mine is a civilian county station wagon so I don't think so. I should check to make sure though. I agree, John's spring list is invaluable.

IIRC lots of the BATUS units got suspension modifications after we...err...I mean irresponsible soldiers, wrecked them chasing tanks across the prairie. Many also got Southdown skid plates at the same time.

[binch]

Trevor,

I know you take your helpers out when you're not piling in the heavy loads....so I have a question for you.    When you install you setup do you already have the top and bottom seats installed in the truck?   So All you need to do is slide the helper into position, inside the main coil?

I think it would be a great couple of pieces to write up here in the tech section.   One write up for the Air bag set up that John has, including the install and suggestions.    And another write up for the coil helper springs that Trevor is using, including the install and suggestions. 

How about it guys?   ;D

[Trevor]

No, mine stay in all the time Bill. I load up the vehicle too often in the summer to bother switching them, so they have stayed in since the AMT. The ride is fine with them in. Heck, it's a Defender, it various levels of complete shit for ride quality anyway, regardless of spring setup :)