Alberta Land Rover Enthusiasts Club Forum
General => Technical Discussions => Topic started by: headdamage on April 04, 2016, 03:30 PM
So what is the current (no pun intended) on the best vehicle batteries?
AGM vs. Wet cell, exide vs. optima, vs. candiantire ... etc
I bought one of Crappy Tire's AGM battery and it seems to be doing very well. Long times sitting between use and still holds a charge. Never seem to see them on sale though.......
I've been running two Deep cycle Marine batteries in the 110 for the past years or so and I've been very pleased with their job.
I'm 10 years on the Exide AGMs. Keep them properly charged and they last forever, IMO. Letting them discharge or driving around with broken charging systems are what kill batteries. I think what gets most people is that in the winter the batteries never properly charge. The short trips and the high battery draw combined with the need to charge at a higher voltage when cold add up to slowly killing the batteries. A smart charger to keep it topped up and a digital voltmeter to watch for charging problems seems to let them last a long time.
I have Optima in my Defender and Disco 2. Size helps to make two fit. You have to watch their charging. If their voltage drops below 8 volt, they DONOT charge. You have to wake them up with another battery. Then they get recharged with a trickle charger.
Mine has a smart trickle charger attached all the time for winter.
I've never been disappointed with Optima batteries. As Emad posted, they can be a bit of a pian to charge if you allow them to go flat. Unless you have a new style pulse charger made for AGM batteries that is...and I don't. :(
My 2c.
I run Optima's, a red and a yellow pair, and they work quite well as long as I take care of them. I find the smaller footprint handy, especially in the D2.
The optimas in my 90 were bought in 1998 and are not quite dead yet but they don't seem to be all that good anymore. I had heard that the Mexican optimas were not as good, if they are good I'd be happy to put a new set of them in my 90 because the wiring will all fit up nicely.
Optima batteries are going on sale at Canadian Tire starting tomorrow.
Optimas are overrated unless you live in the Arctic. Look up the specs and see for yourself. You can get a $170 that will run you 1000ca, keep in mind the amount of days below -60(Only place where the 1000ca battery from Rocky's doesn't compare on the spec sheet's temp chart) we have here, and save yourself $200.
Talk to Robin from Rocky's battery, he's been in the battery business for 42 years.
You wanna buy a good battery, go to a freakin battery place, man. F$%k Costco and Canadian Pif Paf!
The only reason you have left to got out and buy and optima, is the colour, if you're one of those guys.
Stock Land Rover (in fact anyones) wiring will only flow so much current so a massive CCA rating is a bit of a moot point.
I used an agm charger with a repair feature on the 18 year old red tops... seemed like it worked. They still run the 90, haven't tried winching with them yet.
The current draw from the system is not determined by the battery, but by the circuit, regardless of it's capacity. 1000can just gives you more headroom, especially at -30 where it will dropped 50% or more on any battery out there.
I just solved an electrical problem here tonight at a remote pipeline site off the Alaska highway in BC. That site, as with most of that network, uses large wet cell Exide storage batteries.
From what I remember, the original ex-army starting battery in my 110 was a much smaller wet cell Varta, with removable caps on the cells.
Several of the lead-acid batteries we used for army equipment in Wainwright were Hawker/Enersys, which has some competing products to Optima, Varta, and Exide. Hawker would be out of their defence contracts if they made junk.
The Enersys competing product to Optima seems to be their "Odyssey Performance Series".
Most starting batteries are unable to withstand deep discharges, as when they get flattened. Conversely, most deep-cycle batteries are unable to withstand the large starting currents needed for an engine, due to the smaller spacing between the plates. For that, the Optima seems designed to fill both roles.
The Optima and Odyssey SLA's do appear to be a better battery, and for a member with just one landrover; the obvious choice.
The CT regular price for the Optima yellowtop is $319, two of those is $638. A fellow with a fleet of three landrovers who may eventually want dual battery systems in each would be out $1914
In the multiple landrover scenario, cheaper aftermarket sets from CT, Rocky's, etc may be a more reasonable choice. A high-quality flooded cell with removable caps could last the longest if maintained. It is unlikely an owner would be diligent enough to properly store, top up, not flatten, and consistently charge multiple sets of flooded-cell batteries before they met their designed end of life.
For that reason, an Optima, Odyssey, or copy makes the most sense.
Quote from: Orange Disco on May 23, 2016, 09:31 PM
The current draw from the system is not determined by the battery, but by the circuit, regardless of it's capacity. 1000can just gives you more headroom, especially at -30 where it will dropped 50% or more on any battery out there.
I didn't say current draw from the system was determined by the battery.
My point was having an oversized battery based solely on it's CCA because bigger is better is not always the case. For instance most big V8's will only pull 200-250amps during starting. More, obviously, in cold weather but if you need 1000amps to turn the engine over you have bigger fish to fry......and probably fried electrics as well because factory wiring is not designed to handle that high of a current draw.
Cold Cranking rating is defined as: The number of amperes a battery at 0 degrees F (-17.8 degrees C) can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell.
That's it. It's not pro-rated down to -30. What happens below 0 F or a for a second 30 sec attempt is anyone's guess? And remember that's a one shot test with a brand new fully charged battery under controlled conditions, not one that's been left to freeze in Yelloknife for a week.
Not all batteries are made equal and choosing solely on CCA or $$$ is not always best because battery manufactures know that most folks will go for a battery that has the higher numbers when comparing units. So they design batteries that perform well under the specific criteria above.
As far as Optima, Exide and the other pricy battery options go, they are proven long lasting and able to take a beating. So for an paltry extra $100 or so I'm not going try a generic brand X until someone that is not trying to sell me one can prove it's on par with the others.
My 2c.
Quote from: Matt H on May 23, 2016, 11:08 PM
As far as Optima, Exide and the other pricy battery options go, they are proven long lasting and able to take a beating. So for an paltry extra $100 or so I'm not going try a generic brand X until someone that is not trying to sell me one can prove it's on par with the others.
My 2c.
That's much in line with my view on batteries. Certain parts I'm fine with bargain hunting and (usually) sacrifice quality in the process. But in our neck of the woods batteries are not one of them. I'm quite happy to pay more for proven product. Saving a few bucks to stand stranded in -30c will never balance out on my spreadsheets.
I'm looking at Northstar AGM batteries now. Available in GP and Edmonton, they have higher capacities than the Odyssey, Optima, and Exide's. The Northstar is about $100/ea. more than the Optima.
Northstar is an independent US company making batteries there. I have seen these in use lately at Telus cellular sites.
The extra unneeded CCA's translate into greater storage, and longer discharges. I expect automotive adjustable current and voltage limiting modules could be installed on either side of the battery, to control float voltage, limit charge current, and ensure discharge current cuts off after a low voltage setpoint is reached. This is the same way that a properly designed DC UPS works at a remote communications site.
http://www.northstarbattery.com/
If they're made in USA, that would be a big draw for me to look at them. Good find, thanks for the info!
A product like the smartgauge, ctek, or other multibattery controller would ensure they were properly charged/discharged. There seems to be many marine and automotive products on the market.
Of course physical cutoff switches or road-mobile approriate breakers would be a good additions too.
My application here isn't "pie in the sky", but is much closer to the way a fire truck or ambulance might be setup.
The AGM ultra XD top end battery at Canadiantire is a Northstar.
Yes, I think you have it here.
-The Eliminator AGM Ultra XD looks to be made by Northstar.
-The Eliminator Spiral seems to be made by Exide as the Orbital.
-The Eliminator Ultra Flat Plate seems to actually be the Exide Edge.
Supposedly, CT has many of their high-tier batteries made by Exide, I would expect CT's entry-level batteries are made overseas and sent over by the seacan.
I would also expect Sears DieHard batteries to have a good OEM like Exide, interestingly, they aren't available in Canada, and in the US only. This would give reason to believe CT has an exclusive deal with Exide for department store sales in Canada.
I'm waiting for the high-tier CT batteries to go on sale! Should be big discounts over labelled genuine!
Are the CT Eliminator Spirals available again? I have a 6-7 year old one that is awesome. I ran it in a '91 Land Cruiser for 2 years, then pulled it out, after that it kicked around the house unloved. I'd drag it out to boost a vehicle once in a while, but generally neglected it. For the last two years it's lived in my '61 Series II. It sits for long periods of time and ties up every time. I'd buy another in a second.