Alberta Land Rover Enthusiasts Club Forum
General => Non Technical Discussion => Topic started by: roverwanabe on November 15, 2016, 11:42 PM
Finally got an appointment with the surgeon for December. Should be getting a hip replacement within 2 to 4 months after that. May be able to drive the Land Rover again.
Congrats! That's great news! I'm curious, how long did the process take from the point you first identified the problem, until now?
I'm just starting the process to get mine replaced. I've had little success thus far working our pos medical system and getting things moving forward properly. I just got the go ahead for an MRI yesterday from my GP (who I'm replacing btw). I haven't received a date for the MRI yet but I'm told the wait times are pretty long (up to a year). Fortunately I can get one of those privately in a pinch, which I'll do to move things along.
I think I will just go to the US and have mine done there if this looks like the Canadian system will show its typical ineffectiveness and ask me to suffer for years.
Quite curious how long you had to wait for though.
So, in Landrover fashion, what are the signs that you need a HIP replacement?
I see many people having it done.
Beside that, what's the cost on an import?(out of Canada)
Just so I can budget watch out for it :-)
Cost for getting it done in a timely manner (i.e. in the US) varies quite a bit based on region. But as a ballpark, budget for around US$20,000 for the full "servicing" down south. There are excellent clinics throughout the US that specialize in only orthopedic work, but costs vary. You can spend a lot more, I believe the average from a recent study is $30,000, and it revealed areas like the populated east coast where cost can get up to the $60k range, But keep in mind they have a lot of VERY high end services down south as well...it's an open market, so they cater to all needs, hence the wide spread in pricing.
In your line of work and with your connections Emad if you get to that point, just start asking around and you'll find lots of recommendations. Our system is completely broken, so lots of people are forced to go south for the procedure to maintain some semblance of life quality. And I may be one who can offer a recommendation in short order.
(http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/91089600_L.jpg)
TO ALL
I had a back problem for years, lower back, and assumed that was the problem. My leg was hurting, the right one, usually the back causes the left leg to hurt, leg would get numb and felt like it was seizing up. Knee hurt, from limping, and had trouble reaching down to tie my shoe etc.
Went to the doctor in FEB 2015 and that's when the process started. Once I was identified by way of XRAYs and MRIs etc, I should have been referred then but my family doctor said and I quote
"you are are a bit young (64) so lets see if we can wait until you are a bit older, like 70, because they only last about 10 years and by the time you need a new one you will probably be dead anyway"
I was referred to the MSK Clinic in DEC I think and called in for screening on MAR 20 2016. A retired surgeon did the screening and basically said he looked at the XRAY and you need a new hip, that's it, your hip is shot. AR is the cause which is just wear and tear, he said. When I told him what my Doctor said he laughed. He said " your doctor is out to lunch, they last 15 to 25 years and they just had one in recently that was done 39 years ago.
At that point I was put on the list for a surgeon to pick me up and put me in his schedule.
Last Thursday I received the letter to meet the surgeon on DEC 9. From what I was told it will be another 2-4 months after that.
I could be done within 1 year which is pretty good as I was expecting to be waiting 16-24 months.
FOR INFO
The shortest waiting lists in Canada are NFLD, PEI and MAN. Canada is comparable to most western countries INCLUDING the US. Some Scandinavian countries are faster but that's because they are better at Social Programs and don't mind paying the taxes to support them. I prefer our system to the US and I HAVE NO PROBLEM PAY TAXES TO SUPPORT OUR SYSTEM. I would be bankrupt if I lived in the US as I have developed other health problems recently and most likely would not qualify for health insurance or pay a fortune for it. I actually talked to a guy from California and that's what he said.
My research shows the US is no better than Canada and in fact if you are poor or cannot afford health insurance you may never get one down there. If you have the money you can get it done, like everything. A lot of Americans go to a clinic in Belgium as it's faster, costs about 35K US.
Also, my father had the same AR problem, one older brother already had two hips done and another 1 year older is in worst shape than me. Family curse, genetics etc. If your family has a history, you will probably get it.
Sorry for the rambling but there is info there that may help someone.
Thanks for the info on your timelines, much appreciated. That was the info I was curious about! That is about what I had expected to hear...2-3 years total from start to operation time.
Insofar as the two systems go, there is no "better" when comparing the US and Canadian systems as that is just too subjective a term applied to two VERY flawed systems. What you think is important (example: universality) and of great value, I do not. What I think is important (immediate quality care as a priority), you are ok with sacrificing some of (I assume) to allow for universality. Those two paths will never cross. More importantly, a Canadian universally funded system such as we have now will never achieve both...that is simply not affordable or sustainable.
The US system IS much faster though, that much is undeniable. That is largely because it allows me the choice to pay for an accelerated path, a "partially" accelerated path, or simply follow the timeline provided by the normal flow insurance (on average about 4-6 months for joints, average across the US). In the US you have a choice....you can choose not to suffer. I could book myself for a hip replacement and have it completed inside a month. In Canada, you simply do not have that choice. You MUST suffer.
Canada's implementation of universality is what is flawed because of its exclusion of the private care option. The ideal system imo, and as shown by the successful "universal" systems around the globe, is one that allows for both. Universality, but with private care options that one can choose to follow if you are willing to pay for them. Such a format is shown to take a significant load of the public system, and speeds wait times for those that can't afford private options simply by pulling headcount from the public to the private side. They are also more efficient as the private/public combination does breed efficiency transfers from the private to the public.
Hey Trever-Bubba, I didn't realize your hip was so bad there.... I hear Craig has a spare box a lye and a few .22 left over. If you ask him nice like he might take into the back 40 with one of the other old horses. And if he aint in a good mood it'll be quick and painless too! If you talk nice & purty to 'em he may even let'cha butt in to th front of th line ;-)
All kidding aside....I've had a few friends getting the knee or hip surgery done..... Time was between 1.3 and 3 years. The fella that took 3 years had trouble getting his weight done to a 'safe' level, before the surgeons would begin. But when they decided it was time he was in, getting both kneeds done at the same time, within 4 months. And before he had it done you would cringe in pain watching him walk 10 feet!??!?! But now that it's done he's a new man! No trouble walking and his knees have straighten up so much he's gained a good 4" in height.
Common Brian....give a whistle!!!! ;)
ok, let's put Craig as "Option #3"...If the prior two don't pan out (Canada, then US), you can give Craig a call! ;D
That's good to hear on the shorter timelines Bill. As you know from my earlier post, I'm just starting down this path. One thing I have found thus far though is that you need to be pretty aggressive and keep pushing, and don't take "no" for an answer. Without that the system is painfully slow and very much works against you.
And yes, on the positive side of it all, these operations have become pretty standard and, especially with hips, you get relief immediately. I've chatted with several folks as well that have had the procedure done and it's pretty amazing how well they feel after.
Looking forward to that bit!
Quote from: Red90 on November 16, 2016, 07:18 PM
https://youtu.be/Ko5nDPLL1po
Holy crap, that's priceless!
Universal Heath care only works if you force those able to pay for "better/faster" options to not do so and stand in line with the rest of us forcing the issue of improvement. Obviously this isn't going to work.
The American system only works if you can afford it. So that's not really great either if you can't.
A hybrid system ensures the lions share of the best medical staff end up in the 'for profit' care facilities reducing the effectiveness of the others. Therefore exacerbating the current inequality in society.
As a side note, Steve Austin's procedures cost a mere $6 million. That is beginning to sound more and more reasonable!
Quote from: Matt H on November 17, 2016, 10:30 AM
A hybrid system ensures the lions share of the best medical staff end up in the 'for profit' care facilities reducing the effectiveness of the others. Therefore exacerbating the current inequality in society.
Sorry, this argument holds no water. You're ALREADY losing top talent to other jurisdictions for higher pay under the Canadian system. What's worse, we are paying to subsidize their education, and their training at a huge cost. Then they take their families (which is usually 2 doctors, because that's what doctors do, they marry doctors) and all the money we've spent on them, and head south...or where ever.
That's just part of it though. We lose the most important part...we lose all the tax on their future revenues, the tax revenues on their practices and the people they hire, the advantages of their high-earning salaries purchasing power in our own economies, AND the potential of their children's contribution as well since they are likely to be well schooled and high-pay earners as well. This is happening already, in spades. And we gain what for it? Worse care for all and lower GDP. Swell, great model.
In a two tier system you have a greater chance of keeping that in Canada, and that benefits everyone top to bottom in more ways than you can count.
...or you can simply let them keep going south, and let all that money follow them. Quality of care here doesn't change, it still sucks hind teet.
For those that can afford it though this is entirely academic really and doesn't make a lot of difference. They are already part of a 2- tier system as it is. They just contribute to the US economy, not Alberta's, for their health care. I'm sure if you ask any of them they would MUCH rather spend the money here and help Alberta, and Albertan's, rather than taking the money down south. I know I would.
Perhaps it is time to put an end to the protectionist system that makes it difficult for doctors trained overseas to practice in Canada. Some for other medical professionals that want to move here.
Quote from: headdamage on November 17, 2016, 01:46 PM
Perhaps it is time to put an end to the protectionist system that makes it difficult for doctors trained overseas to practice in Canada. Some for other medical professionals that want to move here.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: Trevor on November 17, 2016, 01:07 PM
Quote from: Matt H on November 17, 2016, 10:30 AM
A hybrid system ensures the lions share of the best medical staff end up in the 'for profit' care facilities reducing the effectiveness of the others. Therefore exacerbating the current inequality in society.
Sorry, this argument holds no water. You're ALREADY losing top talent to other jurisdictions for higher pay under the Canadian system.
Yes. I understand this and I do take your point on the economic migration of Dr's and the question of tax. And I understand the rich will always pay for preferential treatment regardless of what nation they are citizens of and will go wherever they need to go to get it. But in my view that's exactly why a hybrid system exacerbates the situation.
I'm also not holding up the Canadian (or British for that matter) system as ideal either.
As long as this stays the same any state run health care system will always be sub par. Because there will be no determined effort to fix it.
I can't think of one area where a 'pay for privilege' option has ever helped those who could not afford it?
Quote from: Matt H on November 17, 2016, 11:16 PM
Yes. I understand this and I do take your point on the economic migration of Dr's and the question of tax. And I understand the rich will always pay for preferential treatment regardless of what nation they are citizens of and will go wherever they need to go to get it. But in my view that's exactly why a hybrid system exacerbates the situation.
<snip>
I can't think of one area where a 'pay for privilege' option has ever helped those who could not afford it?
I'm a bit confused with these statements Matt. On the one hand we acknowledge that we lose "something" with the migration of doctors to other juristictions. This something is wages/jobs, tax revenue, and just a more general feedback into overall GDP (in the simplests sense...more people earning = more people spending).
That is very singificant because those are all feedbacks into the economy generally, and therefore empower the government with more options wrt their programs. Enhancement of the public sector medical system being one of them.
One other thing I should note, is I don't agree with the premise that the best talent migrates to the private system. Talent definitely does migrate generally, but it is not necessarily the "best". There are draws to the public system as well. Private care formats are much more competitive, driven, and demanding upon their members. Not all doctors want to take that on.
Moreover, the wage disparity is not similar to what we would see in other private/public market comparissons. An MD under a public system still makes a wage that is very good, and very comfortable. Canada is certainly an example of that as our physician wages are well above the norm compared to other publically funded models. We are already in a very good position to start a transition to a full 2 - tier system imo.
That makes total sense if you subscribe to the so called "trickle down economics" theory. The effectiveness of which could be debated without end.
But it's a big step to go from the general revenue earned from Dr's taxes to overall improvements in health care. There is no way to be sure that extra revenue will not be fritted away on another pet project of our illustrious leader?
The average GP doesn't make as much as you may think considering their education and the responsibility they have.
Frankly I'm not entirely sure what the best way forward with health care is but being from a very working class background I'm hugely sceptical of anything that is based on pay for privilege. .
Quote from: Matt H on November 18, 2016, 03:40 PM
That makes total sense if you subscribe to the so called "trickle down economics" theory. The effectiveness of which could be debated without end.
But it's a big step to go from the general revenue earned from Dr's taxes to overall improvements in health care. There is no way to be sure that extra revenue will not be fritted away on another pet project of our illustrious leader?
The average GP doesn't make as much as you may think considering their education and the responsibility they have.
Frankly I'm not entirely sure what the best way forward with health care is but being from a very working class background I'm hugely sceptical of anything that is based on pay for privilege. .
Hehe, yes, the notion governments will spend additional revenues wisely is not and an argument I would try to make.
The key thing to remember is every Albertan currently lives in, and pays to support, a 2-tier system. The second tier is south of the border and not under Alberta's benefit. But it is there, and it is accessed by those that can afford it. It's just a crappy model for Alberta as the only benefit it sees is the queue jumping/unloading to the US. But Alberta loses on the migration of doctors and revenues/taxes, which is really unfortunate.
But alas, we've hammered this one pretty well. Time to agree to disagree.
Got past stage 2. Meeting with my Surgeon. About 5 more months, if all other tests go OK
That's great news, congrats! It's nice to hear that things are moving ahead for you.
I had a private MRI done a few weeks back as the one booked for me through the health system was not going to happen until July 2017. So, with the MRI out of the way I am now at the stage of waiting to see the ortho and lock down a date for surgery. I'm not too sure what that timeline is right now, although I should know in a few weeks.
Trevor.
I wa referred for screening about Jan 2016.
Screened at MSK Clinic on Mar 20
Met with Surgeon on Dec 9
They told me on Dec 9 that it would be about 5 months.
So, from first going on the list on Mar 20 wait time for me is about 14 months.
Research back a year ago indicated 16 to 24 months.
They also said the number is floating and subject to many variables, understandably.
As I've delved into the various surgical options the newer method, anterior hip replacement, seems to be the best option as it is not nearly as invasive. However one does have to meet certain requirements for it to be an option.
I'm not sure how many doctors here are doing it though (if any) as it's an advanced procedure and takes a pretty skilled set of hands, and specialized (read: expensive) tools. But if you still have the opportunity, you may want to ask your doctor about it as an option.
Re: Ronald Regan.. "Reganonomics". feed the horse enough oats, a little bit trickles out the other end for the sparrow.
Quote from: roverwanabe on January 06, 2017, 08:39 AM
Re: Ronald Regan.. "Reganonomics". feed the horse enough oats, a little bit trickles out the other end for the sparrow.
Yup, Reaganomics was a big old fail, largely because they didn't do what the econmic plan laid out...
What was supposed to happen?
-- Reduce size of government (all good, less of that is always better, governments = institutionalized waste)
-- Reduce government regulation and social spending (all good, because it means you need to take less money from your populace via taxes)
-- Tax cuts across the board (ditto, gut the government and the social waste, put money back in the hands of the individual where it belongs)
-- Increase military spending (was rather important at the time because, well, Reagans military build-up was a big part of why the US won the Cold War
What did Reaganomics actually do? Well, none of the above except for the last one. Size of government actually increased, taxes increased, and goverment reg's basically stayed neutral overall (decreased in some areas, increased in others.
Tis too bad, the economic aspects of the original model was a winner. It's all about execution though, and on that it was a big old fail.
Countries with higher taxes, higher social spending on Education, Health Care, Social Programs, etc., usually have a higher standard of living. (Norway, Finland, Sweden for example).
Tax Cuts usually benefit the richest and the ensuing cuts to programs hurt the most vulnerable.
I prefer a society where I would get looked after if something happened and therefore don't mind paying to make sure those less fortunate than myself are looked after. That is what Canada is, or should be about, not a culture of Greed and Selfishness.
Right now it should be very obvious as to the importance of Education. Cuts to education could lead to someone like Donald Trump getting elected
Quote from: roverwanabe on January 07, 2017, 02:24 PM
Cuts to education could lead to someone like Donald Trump getting elected
Wish we were that lucky :->
High taxes really hurt that POS. I would hope there are not enough Deplorables in Canada to elect something like that. If there are, then we are like America, beyond hope.
Quote from: roverwanabe on January 07, 2017, 03:57 PM
High taxes really hurt that POS. I would hope there are not enough Deplorables in Canada to elect something like that. If there are, then we are like America, beyond hope.
I'm a Deplorable, and damn proud of it! Hitlary and her band of felons and murders got bitchslaped...good times! :)
P.S. As an aside, I don't believe we've met yet, but when we do be sure to introduce yourself in person. I don't have to agree with peoples views, and I respect their right to an opinion. Since this has decended into name calling, lets leave that until we're talking face to face.
We're done here though.
Good luck with your surgery.