New Defenders to be built but not from where you'd expect.

[binch]

I figure if you really want one....wait a couple of years.   I'm sure the price will drop like a lead ballon.    Just for a lark...I wonder how much the ECUs are celling for.   And better yet...where did they place them in the cars.   I'll be the important ones are under you butt LOL

[Red90]

https://jalopnik.com/what-i-found-when-i-crawled-under-the-2020-land-rover-d-1838080009

[Trevor]

As for playing in the same space as the 4runner, not sure about that. They're not even in the same ball park for pricing.

They're obviously not in the same price category, and I noted that. Bling separates them, NOT functionality. A 4runner can do everything a Defender can do, or a G-Wagon, or a Blazer, or a Grand Cherokee, or a Lexus, or Explorer, etc etc.

From a capability perspective offroad, all those vehicles are essentially equally capable. The main differentiator is the amount of bling you want to add on.

[Matt H]

Base model is mid $60K and that is pretty much where the 4 Runner tops out. Toyota had always had a lower buy in price. That's how LR lost its developing world market to them. What is less known  is the high cost of parts. Despite their reputation, they also require repairs now and again. Disco 5 is an $80K + unit!!!!!
But anyway, my point is  there is space in the adventure market for another player. Not all buyers are motivated entirely by price especially when an SUV can perform as tow vehicle, minivan & overlander etc etc. Apparently the ND can tow over 8,000lbs? No Jeep, 4Runner or Taco can do that.

82 ECUs or 1082 ECUs today it doesn't really matter. The P38 had one central ECU and look how that turned out! Late RRC & D1/2/3/4 all have an ECU or two under the front seats. Everything has an ECU these days. The cell phone I'm typing this on is essentially an ECU. It's just normal for 2020 and dare I say as reliable as any other component on a modern vehicle.
I personally think Clubs like ours will be full of new Defenders in ten years time bringing more folks and a broader membership base. I watched it happen in the UK with the Land Rover Clubs when the original Discovery came out. It happened to all the Jeep clubs when the JK came out. The old guard is reluctant at first but eventually we learn there is space and respect for all the various marks of Land Rover. The diversity attracts a whole new demographic.


Unless we talking Series One clubs. Those guys are seriously hard core. I once watched an owner of smart early 110 get heckled, shamed and driven away from their club stand after attempting to park up within 20' of a row of 107" SW!! I thought the poor guy was going to cry. I don't think he even stuck around for the show. Not cool.

[Red90]

It will be a lot lighter than the LR3/4.

I was surprised to read that the new 110 is 4800 pounds. Heavier than the old model.

[Matt H]

Apparently, you can make adjustments to the traction control to suit the terrain or your personal driving style. Not just the regular 'mode' dial or switch that everyone has now copied. But a system that the drive is able to tailor.......or so the ad say? 

If that is effective then it addresses one of my peeves with the any traction control system. I don't like the way under certain conditions  it cuts in just when you don't want it to.

[Red90]

They really need a way to override the computers and at a minimum force the diff locks to turn on.  On our last trip the LR3 off road system kept faulting and nothing would work.  Fortunately rebooting got it going for awhile.  If you are out in the middle of a difficult trail without a center diff and no TC, it is very, very dangerous.  It would have also really helped some of the climbs if you could have forced the rear locker to stay on.

[Trevor]

They really need a way to override the computers and at a minimum force the diff locks to turn on. 

Agree 100%!

Unfortunately all the electronic offroading systems in these vehicles are really counter productive for someone that knows how to drive (and for someone who does not even). And there is the added difficulty of on-raod systems like Directional Stability Control, interfering with the offroad systems. DSC needs to be disabled completely (hold button for 10 seconds, not just a single push) before going offroad, but no where does it say that in the manual (at least it didn't in my Sport). So you've got DSC pulling your power off anytime the vehicle starts to skid, and working against all the other systems.

Then you've got a bunch of systems like rock crawl, sand, mud, etc that really don't have any net benefit whatsoever when compared to a set of manual lockers ala the G-Wagon. Lockers are far superior in every case and  if they had a manual/auto switch they would serve the goal of helping the uninitiated as well as the experienced driver.

It kinda boils down to that. All the wizzy systems are still never as good as a good old fashioned set of lockers. But that's boring, and sells for less I guess. And the current system is much more likely to fault/break down when you need it.

[Matt H]

All traction control systems are reactive. Meaning there first needs to be a loss of traction before the system will react. It reacts very very fast. Faster than any human can but there still needs to be a loss of traction first.

Humans can learn to be predictive. Meaning we can spot an area where traction may be lost and adjust the vehicle settings and driving style before entering to (hopefully) not lose traction in the first place.

Without knowing any details of the TC system employed in the ND other than it can be adjusted I am hoping that optimizing both of the above would be the ideal way to go?????
And obviously, not have it break down when needed would also be useful.

[Trevor]

Yes, TC systems are required for any automatic engagement system, be it simply TC or an autolocker. The downside of TC systems is that they involve a lot of moving parts, and a lot of electronics. Accordingly, they are prone to fail...and in the case of Landrover, fail a lot. D2's are the best example of this and are a big part of why all of my non-LR wheeling friends (rightly) are critical of LR's endless electronic snafu's.

My RRS was the same. After a day in Moab on the trails it would be prone to trigger fits of electronic nonsense. Typically a reboot/restart would fix the problem. Sometimes a disconnect of the battery was in order. This I think was a heat/over-usage combination problem. That said, TC systems have improved a lot over the years. Every manufacturer has one and they have been a staple of their lines for many years.

But a manual overide would be very handy for a locker system. Shut off the TC, shut off all the useless "offroad mode" irrelevancies, and turn it into a simple e-locker and lock her up.

[Trevor]

Funny little anecdote. I was walking into Sobey's and one of the bag boys was out gathering carts and said to me "cool Defender!"

I of course thanked him, then he proceeded to tell me all about the new Defender that was just released!

So it's not just us crotchity old farts that follow LR. There's a few young'ns out there paying attention.

[B-Red]

It's a nice ride. I did my built on the web and was happy. Lots of customization options. No 90 yet. So maybe I will wait.

[Trevor]

Do they have any in Edmonton Emad? Or have you gotten that far on your purchase?  ;D

I was poking around on the build site and a few things I couldn't quite figure out:

-- They offer a "winch kit" (gloves, shackles, etc), and have a picture of a guy working a winch. But I couldn't find an actual winch option (bumper, winch, etc)!? Perhaps that's still to come?
-- I couldn't find the steel wheel option that they show on the base build. Also everything appears to be 19' rims and larger, up to 22" gangsta rims bitchez! Yoh!
-- I'm not sure if they have a locker in these ala the LR's. They had this option..."Electronic Active Differential with Torque Vectoring by Braking"...maybe that's it, or not. I dunno, just trying to fit that into a sentence causes serious cranial discomfort.

I did LOL when I read about the All Terrain Progress Control which appears to be a cruise control for slow speed wheeling. Cause, well, learning proper throttle control is hard!

[Red90]

Do they have any in Edmonton Emad? Or have you gotten that far on your purchase?  ;D

I was poking around on the build site and a few things I couldn't quite figure out:

-- They offer a "winch kit" (gloves, shackles, etc), and have a picture of a guy working a winch. But I couldn't find an actual winch option (bumper, winch, etc)!? Perhaps that's still to come?
-- I couldn't find the steel wheel option that they show on the base build. Also everything appears to be 19' rims and larger, up to 22" gangsta rims bitchez! Yoh!
-- I'm not sure if they have a locker in these ala the LR's. They had this option..."Electronic Active Differential with Torque Vectoring by Braking"...maybe that's it, or not. I dunno, just trying to fit that into a sentence causes serious cranial discomfort.

I did LOL when I read about the All Terrain Progress Control which appears to be a cruise control for slow speed wheeling. Cause, well, learning proper throttle control is hard!

The actual trucks will not be available until spring.  So there are none to see.

No sign of a winch, I can see. Brochure says 10000 lbs and 150'.

18" wheels are there in steel and alloy.

I think that is the locker.  Probably same as other models.  Variable engagement wet clutch pack.  The dash does use the word "locked".

This is from the brochure "ELECTRONIC ACTIVE DIFFERENTIAL
On or off-road. In ice, rain or snow. The optional Electronic Active Differential ensures the greatest level of traction. It does so by controlling the slip between the left and right wheels on the rear axle, helping to deliver effortless capability. Not only that, it's far more effective than brakes when traction is lost, reacting much faster and with a smoother response"

Yes, off road cruise control.  Stupid.

[Matt H]

I don't get it?   :o
This new adjustable TC system is just a limited slip diff and cruise control that is plugged into each other? How is that new?

Why would I want to use cruise control while tackling a tricky section of trail anyway?

Toyota came out with "Progress Control" some years ago that sounds very similar. As far as I can tell nobody that actually goes off road in one really uses it to any great effect.

And torque biasing differentials, even electronically controlled ones, are not exactly anything new.

Besides perhaps more software, I'm struggling to see anything particularly groundbreaking here?