Alberta Land Rover Enthusiasts Club Forum
General => Technical Discussions => Topic started by: camo388 on December 03, 2016, 12:20 AM
Doing some research on fitting a 2.5 NA diesel into my Series 3 Lightweight. The difficulty came up that my LWT is FFR, complete 24 volt vehicle and the 2.5 uses a 12 volt starter and probably fuel solenoid too. I had been thinking of ways to make this work and the complications of 2 separate electrical systems. However when it came up in the "Winch Project" that the Wolf was all 24 volt, I began to wonder if there was a 24 volt starter for the 2.5 NA.
Turns out there is. :o It is the same starter as used in the Wolf, ERR5021. Same starter works in 200, 300 AND 2.5! Hooray
So now I can keep LWT and it's winch, 24 volt. ;D Next step, I get to search for a starter and hope it is cheaper than what it costs to convert everything to 12 volt. ::)
Isn't Klaus' LWT a FFR 2.5L NA Diesel? The Brits never used diesel powered LWTs but his is Dutch I believe? Perhaps he has a spare or knows where to source a 24v starter?
No, it is a 2.25. Different starter.
I still think you are overthinking this whole thing. A 12 Volt starter would be fine and you would not have any issues.
Can you find 24 Volt glow plugs? Glow plugs are mandatory with those engines.
Quote from: Red90 on December 03, 2016, 03:09 PM
Can you find 24 Volt glow plugs? Glow plugs are mandatory with those engines.
If the Wolf is 24 volt, what does it use for glow plugs? I'm hoping I can get glow plugs, fuel solenoid and starter as the Wolf uses and I'm good to go. :D
Wolfs use a 300tdi. Completely different type of plugs and fuel solenoid.
Lrseries.com has the starter number you're looking for....
Quote from: Red90 on December 03, 2016, 09:24 PM
Wolfs use a 300tdi. Completely different type of plugs and fuel solenoid.
Yes I did see that after some research. I've been on several forums regarding 2.5 into Series or a Lightweight. Gets a bit confusing after a while as UK members have access to different variations of the same engine. My engine and gearbox have been rebuilt so ready to put it in.
Quote from: camo388 on December 04, 2016, 09:51 PM
My engine and gearbox have been rebuilt so ready to put it in.
Good to hear Bruce ;D
I have a 24v starter on order so can basically keep the Lightweight as 24 volt. There would still be the issue with the 12v glow plugs and fuel solenoid but I do recall being told the voltage for the gas engine ignition/distributor was stepped down from 24 to 12v. Don't see why I can't use this for the 12v I need for 2 functions.
The glow plugs are quite high amperage, so I doubt what was used for a distributor would work.
A distributor is just a simple switch and does not really care about voltage. The coil is the only thing that would care and they normal set voltage with a small resistor.
None of that is useful for the glow plugs. Just run them from one battery.
Seems using 1 battery may be the way I will need to go.
I feel better having found a 24v starter for that engine as I have at least reduced the load on 1 battery of the 24v system. :)
Quote from: camo388 on December 08, 2016, 02:26 PM
I have a 24v starter on order so can basically keep the Lightweight as 24 volt. There would still be the issue with the 12v glow plugs and fuel solenoid but I do recall being told the voltage for the gas engine ignition/distributor was stepped down from 24 to 12v. Don't see why I can't use this for the 12v I need for 2 functions.
I run 12 Volt glow plugs in my 24V diesel without problems just have to glow less or you collapse them bin there done that. Not sure if the transformed 12 Volt will have enough power to heat them quickly. I also have a resistor box between my source and the plugs.
Another LWT in the group!!!! Excellent.... How many is that now. Bruce x2, Emad x1, Max x1, Klaus x1 and now Dutchie for 1. Have I missed any? And by the sounds of it Dutchie may have a 2.25 diesel too! That's two in the group. Good count ;)
When the all british field meet comes up in june it would be great to have most of them there ::)
Quote from: binch on February 07, 2017, 03:45 PM
Klaus x1 and now Dutchie for 1.
Cough... Claus is Dutchie.
ahhahaha Just figured that out reading the other site :o
I still have mine. Hoping to get it back together this year.
I think that's six of them total....pretty good ratio in our club ;)
John and Bill was so exited to have one more LWT with a 2.25 diesel in the group, guess somebody has to go out and by one now :D , Soon I can help that person with any problem coming up because I had most of them I think.
I run 12 Volt glow plugs in my 24V diesel without problems just have to glow less or you collapse them bin there done that. Not sure if the transformed 12 Volt will have enough power to heat them quickly. I also have a resistor box between my source and the plugs.
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That is good to know. I hadn't really thought how the glow plugs were powered on the Dutch diesel Lightweights, probably assumed they were 12 volt vehicles.
This means the fuel solenoid can be powered by the 12 volts that was stepped down for the ignition on the gas engine.
So in effect I don't need anything more than what the Lightweight has already except the 24 volt starter.
Quote from: binch on February 07, 2017, 03:45 PM
Another LWT in the group!!!! Excellent.... How many is that now. Bruce x2, Emad x1, Max x1, Klaus x1 and now Dutchie for 1. Have I missed any? And by the sounds of it Dutchie may have a 2.25 diesel too! That's two in the group. Good count ;)
I had done military history research on 6 ex British Lightweights. One owned by Dave Lovelock and another owned by Alexander Tilley make up the total. This was before Emad bought his but his came with the military history. Claus is Dutch Army so not as easy to find history of.
The 2.25 glow plug system is completely different to the 2.5.
Quote from: Red90 on February 08, 2017, 01:29 PM
The 2.25 glow plug system is completely different to the 2.5.
Just when I think I've got it sorted, I find I don't! So now it is one battery for glow plugs.
I forgot about Alexander's....that makes it what? 6 in total!!!! That's quite the dense sample ;D
Quote from: binch on February 08, 2017, 01:45 PM
I forgot about Alexander's....that makes it what? 6 in total!!!! That's quite the dense sample ;D
No, 8! Bruce x 2, Emad x 1, Matt x 1, Max x 1, Alexander x 1, Claus x 1, and Dave x 1 (if he still has it).
We should try to gather them all together one day? It would be cool to get a picture of all of them in the same spot.
Quote from: camo388 on February 08, 2017, 02:24 PM
Quote from: binch on February 08, 2017, 01:45 PM
I forgot about Alexander's....that makes it what? 6 in total!!!! That's quite the dense sample ;D
No, 8! Bruce x 2, Emad x 1, Matt x 1, Max x 1, Alexander x 1, Claus x 1, and Dave x 1 (if he still has it).
Hold on....isn't dave's the one that went to Matt???? or Am I all muttled up now ahhahahhahah
Quote from: camo388 on February 08, 2017, 01:43 PM
Quote from: Red90 on February 08, 2017, 01:29 PM
The 2.25 glow plug system is completely different to the 2.5.
Just when I think I've got it sorted, I find I don't! So now it is one battery for glow plugs.
So you added a 3rd Battery?
Quote from: Dutchie on February 09, 2017, 08:13 AMSo you added a 3rd Battery?
You can just take 12V from one of the two batteries (the one connected to ground). The worry is that the batteries are not evenly charged and this leads to premature failure. If the only load is during starting, it should be fine, IMO. It would only be a problem if you were drawing a load from the one battery while the engine is running and trying to charge the pair. One battery would get two much voltage and the other not enough. If there is not uneven load while charging, there should not be a problem.
I would also suggest that using a quality smart two bank battery charger once in a while is a very good idea for anyone on 24V as it ensures both batteries get properly charged. Even in normal use uneven charging is a problem with 24V vehicles.
Quote from: binch on February 08, 2017, 09:04 PM
Quote from: camo388 on February 08, 2017, 02:24 PM
Quote from: binch on February 08, 2017, 01:45 PM
I forgot about Alexander's....that makes it what? 6 in total!!!! That's quite the dense sample ;D
No, 8! Bruce x 2, Emad x 1, Matt x 1, Max x 1, Alexander x 1, Claus x 1, and Dave x 1 (if he still has it).
Hold on....isn't dave's the one that went to Matt???? or Am I all muttled up now ahhahahhahah
Nope. Don't know what happened to Dave's unit? As far as I know he still has it?? I found mine in Lethbridge and bought it from a guy that had owned it for over twenty years.
I work on 24v stuff all the time. Mostly Loaders and Graders etc and it has been suggested that 'rotating' batteries periodically helps prolong their life? That is to switch positions between the two. I'm not sure this really helps all that much in practice but I suppose it's worth trying if you find one battery is failing while the other is still good.
Also, it's worth replacing batteries in pairs. Don't mix a battery with one of a different rating and don't pair an old battery with new one.
My 2c.
Quote from: Red90 on February 09, 2017, 08:36 AM
Quote from: Dutchie on February 09, 2017, 08:13 AMSo you added a 3rd Battery?
You can just take 12V from one of the two batteries (the one connected to ground).
I need only do as John suggests as only need 12 volt for glow plugs. And I can do as Matt suggests to extend battery life. Everything else on the Lightweight will stay stock 24 volt, and I'll use the voltage dropper, (originally used for ignition on the gas engine), to power the fuel solenoid. Easy Peasy ;D
That will work, I need to try the battery change thing as Mat outlines as I have always problems with my rear battery never loaded the same and from time to time I have to charge them both up to full strength again.
This is what I would install and plug it in when sitting around and both batteries will get a proper independent charge. https://no.co/genm2# I've have great success with their marine chargers lasting after killing most other options. Wait for it to come on sale at Crappy Tire.