Missing the mark.

[alany]

Sad that Toyota can offer this in 2018 but Land Rover either can't or doesn't want to. Not sure what the new "Defender" will be like but doubt it's true to heritage.

https://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/lc70/files/lc70_online_brochure_mar2018.pdf

[ugly_90]

You've found the dark side. The force is strong with this one :)

Some proper LC's were sold in the late 80's to worldwide markets plus Canada, and were available here, but not over the border from the US.

I would doubt they would do that again. For LR to chase Toyota's current overseas and industrial market now seems unwinnable.

[Trevor]

For off-roading, LR = the suck.

They seem to make some cool on-road speedy stuff. But they quit being a builder of off road specific vehicles. The Defender was the official end of it all, but it was a long slow decline coming up to that point. Sure, the LR4's can still go down dirt roads and handle moderate terrain, but so can most other mid-full sized SUV's out there today.  LR's have nothing unique or specific, or really off road focused.

I certainly do not expect them to get back into the dedicated 4x4 work horse space, and quite honestly I do not even follow their new product releases. 

Toyota or Jeep, yes, they're players. Excellent companies, excellent brands with a rang of options from hard core wheeling to luxury/easy wheeling capabilities ala LR 4's. If I were buying new that's where I would look. I would not even visit a LR showroom.

[Matt H]

In markets that are awash in old school midsize, small Diesel engines 4WD's the ironic thing is (after following some of the more international off road forums out there) that many lust after domestic 3/4 and 1 ton 4x4 NA spec pickups!

Big axles, big diesel engines and the ability to tow ridiculous weights while having a comfortable and roomy cab are all things that appeal to lots of folks that use their vehicles overland touring & off road.

I'm done fretting about the new Land Rovers. Maybe they will pull their heads out of their butts and make proper off road vehicles again and maybe they will continue down the luxury crossover path? As long as the company still exists there is always the possibility of a off road revival at Land Rover.

[binch]

Toyota and Aussie land......that's a very strong market there.

I'm still waiting to hear about Projekt Grenadier ;)

[ochubb]

Land Cruisers aren't just big in Australia.  I just got back from a 3 week drive about New Zealand.  In the country it seemed one of every two vehicles was a Toyota with a significant number of those being Land Cruisers.   

I did see a few Defenders, in the cities, a reasonable number of D1 and almost no D2's.

[B-Red]

I checked out the 4Runner TRD Pro at the car show over the weekend. Truly a car that I would like to own. At $53k, you get all the functionalities that you would need on the trails. Fuel rating like a Disco 2 nonetheless. You have to order 6 month in advance to get one.

I am very tempted ;-)

[ugly_90]

I would say the TRD 4 Runner likely misses the mark as well. My coworker bought a 2017 non-TRD 4 Runner for that price. Reliable enough for shopping trips, he was impressed with the 90. The new 4 Runner probably wouldn't survive long in rough use. Toyo pickups and 4 runners don't seem to have solid front axles since about 1989? Something like a Toyota LC VDJ76 would be a better pick, but I don't know where you'd find a newer one.

[Matt H]

Toyota and Nissan trucks rust pretty badly in our environment. Repair and service parts tend to be pricey as well.

85 is the magic date for toy mini trucks and 4runners. Last year with a solid front axle and first year with fuel injection.

Seems like an optioned out 98 LC with factory lockers is the hot ticket in full size toy land.

But just like our Land Rovers they also have their share of weak links and perennial problems.

[Trevor]

If one wants an SUV that is a solid offroad/onroad combo, you buy a Jeep Rubicon imo. There's nothing right out of the factory that balances the two areas well. If you could buy a new 70 series Toy here, I would add that to the list, and one might add the FJ as it is fairly solid...but I'd waffle on that last one. There really is nothing else offered in Canada that balances the offroad/onroad requirements well.

There are limitless supplies of vehicles serving the onroad as primary/offroad as secondary market. Land Rover fits squarely in this market, as do many of the Toyota, Nissan, etc offerings. You can move the bar as you bounce through manufacturers with some adding more comfort, some giving better economy, etc etc. But none in that space really serve as balanced offroad/onroad  platforms, capable of doing either task well, right out of the factory. 

[Red90]

The 70 series have some poor traits unfortunately as well.  The leaf spring rear suspension is very rough.  The rear track is narrower than the front, making them a pain in rutted terrain.  Reliability and strength of components is, in reality, not any better then what we are used to with Land Rover.  I spent years wheeling with them in Australia.  95% of trail breakdowns and repairs were on LCs and their owner's drank the Kool-Aid.  Toyota has a good marketing department.

[Trevor]

The 70 series have some poor traits unfortunately as well.  The leaf spring rear suspension is very rough.  The rear track is narrower than the front, making them a pain in rutted terrain.  Reliability and strength of components is, in reality, not any better then what we are used to with Land Rover.  I spent years wheeling with them in Australia.  95% of trail breakdowns and repairs were on LCs and their owner's drank the Kool-Aid.  Toyota has a good marketing department.

Going back when the Defenders were still built, it was a hair splitting effort when comparing rigs. LR's don't offer lockers limiting them greatly, and use spaghetti for axles. LC's don't articulate and are renowned as spine crackers, etc etc etc. One can go on and on with anecdotal examples favoring either side.

But that brand debate of vehicles past aside, for offroading today, the Toy 70's are a far site better than anything LR offers currently. LR is out of this space entirely now. It's really comparing apples and oranges.

[Matt H]

For me it all boils down to this. I'll accept that a new Jeep Rubicon is probably the best out of the box wheeler currently available in NA right now without getting into stupid money. But it's still very expensive and still has its weak areas.

For the same money or less you can build or modify most anything to out perform it. The attraction of Jeep is they make it easy.

You pays your money. You takes your choice.

[Trevor]

For me it all boils down to this. I'll accept that a new Jeep Rubicon is probably the best out of the box wheeler currently available in NA right now without getting into stupid money. But it's still very expensive and still has its weak areas.

For the same money or less you can build or modify most anything to out perform it. The attraction of Jeep is they make it easy.

You pays your money. You takes your choice.

Agreed. One can buy a purpose built rock crawler buggy in Moab for 10k --> 15k that will stand on its left rear tire and do pirouettes on demand.

But for our discussion "out of the factory" was the measuring stick.

[camo388]

Land Cruisers aren't just big in Australia.  I just got back from a 3 week drive about New Zealand.  In the country it seemed one of every two vehicles was a Toyota with a significant number of those being Land Cruisers.   

I did see a few Defenders, in the cities, a reasonable number of D1 and almost no D2's.

When I was in New Zealand in the mid 70s, there were mostly English cars as the import duty was hugely in their favor.  Then it was not uncommon to see older Jags, Rolls, MGs and a few I'd never heard of like Wolsey.  Car dealers began objected to high duty on Japanese cars and put the case forward that Japanese cars had newer and better technology that would improve gas mileage and as well reduce emissions.  This was when the government reduced the duty.  This has opened the flood gates and now you almost don't see the fine English cars except in museums.